RX1-er-2005
Expert
If you read the owners manual they say not to use "ENERGY SAVING" type motor oil and to be careful with type of friction modifier to use due to starter clutches.
I've noticed that some oil's have that certification and some don't, so I'm kind of confused, look at 1 grade yes it has it and in the very same brand other doesn't ??? for example CASTROL SYN. 0-30 doesn't have it all others do and none have any info on FRICTION mod...
I might just stick to YAMAHA oil, I'm just trying to use the best and run trouble free, I was also looking at AMSOIL product but the only type they have is full SYN...0-40 I'm kind of concern on the 40 grade? the other thing is, can I run longer on SYNTHETIC between changes, I usually change YAMI oil & filter every 2000 milles.
The other thing if you use any type of oil treatement product will it affect the so called starter clutches? Expample "LUCAS" product states on the can that it reduces friction and leaves a protective coating...
Just trying to prolong life of a great sled
I've noticed that some oil's have that certification and some don't, so I'm kind of confused, look at 1 grade yes it has it and in the very same brand other doesn't ??? for example CASTROL SYN. 0-30 doesn't have it all others do and none have any info on FRICTION mod...
I might just stick to YAMAHA oil, I'm just trying to use the best and run trouble free, I was also looking at AMSOIL product but the only type they have is full SYN...0-40 I'm kind of concern on the 40 grade? the other thing is, can I run longer on SYNTHETIC between changes, I usually change YAMI oil & filter every 2000 milles.
The other thing if you use any type of oil treatement product will it affect the so called starter clutches? Expample "LUCAS" product states on the can that it reduces friction and leaves a protective coating...
Just trying to prolong life of a great sled
Red2003
TY 4 Stroke Guru
Mobil 1 5w30 or 0w30. Good to go, change it out once a year. Done.
LazyBastard
TY 4 Stroke God
- Joined
- Apr 13, 2003
- Messages
- 5,276
- Reaction score
- 5
- Points
- 1,216
Not "ENERGY SAVING", its "ENERGY SAVING II" to look out for.
ReX
TY 4 Stroke God
Page 2-21 of the Yamaha 2005 RX-1 shop manual (part #8FV-2819777100) states for the oil requirements:
"API Service SH/CD
SAE 5W-30
ENERGY CONSERVING II"
Right below that it has a graph showing:
SAE 5W-30 for -40°C to +16°C
and then states "API SE, SF, SG or higher"
According to the shop manual "ENERGY CONSERVING II" is a requirement, not something to avoid.
However - the owners manual (part #8FU-28199-S0) for the same machine states:
"Engine oil also lubricates the starter clutch. In order to prevent clutch slippage, do not mix any chemical additives with the oil or use oils of a higher grade than "CD". In addition do not use oils labeled "ENERGY CONSERVING II" or higher".
The owners manual also has a graph that shows SAE 0W-30 for -40°C to +16°C.
When I pay top dollar for an OEM shop manual it goes in my shop and I use it for all maintenance & tuneup specs. My owners manual goes in the office file folder for reading when I want to check up on how to operate a feature on the sled.
I don't know why there is such a big disconnect between the shop manual and owners manual but I will say I have been accused of running incorrect viscosity lubricants by following the shop manual instead of the owners manual. I ran Mobil 1 5w30 once in my sled - Yamalube 0w30 the rest of the time.
I would recommend following your owners manual and don't use any additives (I've never believed in additives either - the oil manufacturers already include everything you need in their additive package that is in the oil).
"API Service SH/CD
SAE 5W-30
ENERGY CONSERVING II"
Right below that it has a graph showing:
SAE 5W-30 for -40°C to +16°C
and then states "API SE, SF, SG or higher"
According to the shop manual "ENERGY CONSERVING II" is a requirement, not something to avoid.
However - the owners manual (part #8FU-28199-S0) for the same machine states:
"Engine oil also lubricates the starter clutch. In order to prevent clutch slippage, do not mix any chemical additives with the oil or use oils of a higher grade than "CD". In addition do not use oils labeled "ENERGY CONSERVING II" or higher".
The owners manual also has a graph that shows SAE 0W-30 for -40°C to +16°C.
When I pay top dollar for an OEM shop manual it goes in my shop and I use it for all maintenance & tuneup specs. My owners manual goes in the office file folder for reading when I want to check up on how to operate a feature on the sled.
I don't know why there is such a big disconnect between the shop manual and owners manual but I will say I have been accused of running incorrect viscosity lubricants by following the shop manual instead of the owners manual. I ran Mobil 1 5w30 once in my sled - Yamalube 0w30 the rest of the time.
I would recommend following your owners manual and don't use any additives (I've never believed in additives either - the oil manufacturers already include everything you need in their additive package that is in the oil).
LazyBastard
TY 4 Stroke God
- Joined
- Apr 13, 2003
- Messages
- 5,276
- Reaction score
- 5
- Points
- 1,216
For anyone whose interested, the reason you avoid EC2 oil and additives is because of the starter clutch. If its too slippery, you won't be able to start it.
JDMCRX
TY 4 Stroke Junkie
- Joined
- Dec 13, 2005
- Messages
- 655
- Reaction score
- 1
- Points
- 873
- Location
- OTTAWA, ONTARIO CANDADA
- Website
- www.jbauto.ca
As for changing periods it all depends on the type of driving u do and also how hot th eoil gets ever so long take the dip stick out and on white paper see what color it is if its brown but getting dark changed it
sleddheadd
TY 4 Stroke God
let me know if this helps
i posted this in the tech sec. of ty earlier this year. hope it helps and if you have any question feel free to ask. synthetic is definitely better and no dealer or manufacturer can void a warrenty for not using thier product, they will all tell you that to force you to buy thier oil but it is illegal and they can be sued over it! check out this post!
The Breakdown on oil
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
for all those who have ever wondered about what type/wieght of oil to use, hopefully this helps!
Posted: Tue Jul 11, 2006 3:55 pm Post subject:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
the society of automotive engineers(SAE) have established 12 different viscosity grades. vicosity grades will determine the oils dynamic viscosity and kinematic viscosity.
the dynamic viscosity is the first # you see usually followed by a W , which , yes , you can associate that # with winter to help you think of how it performs in cold weather.the SAE has determined 6 grades of "winter" formulas beginning with 0W and working up to 25W in 5 point incriments. what they are measureing with this is the lubricants ability to pump 60,000centipointe units with no yield stress at certain temps. for ex.
0W = 60,000 cP @-40*C
5W = 60,000 cP @-35*C
10W = 60,000 cP @ -30*C and so on till 25Wwhich is 60,000 cP@-15
basically the smaller the # the better protection for colder temps.
the next # measures the lubricants ability to pour or its kinemetric viscosity, which is measured by the time it takes an oil to pour out of a container. the temp. is always consistant at 100*C (212*F)
this is #ered from 20 -60 in 10 pt incriments and is measured using sabolt universal second(sus) for ex.
sae20@100*c will empty in min.5.6sus and a max. of9.3sus
30 = 9.3sus - 12.5sus
40 = 12.5sus- 16.3sus
60 = 21.9sus - 26.1sus
in other words the oil will empty out of the container just by pouring in 5.6 seconds (roughly) to 9.3 seconds
remember you do not want your oil viscosity to thin in hot temps. because you will lose you ability to lubricate and protect your engine.
a good ex is this. a truck driver leaves florida with a load of oranges heading for minnesota, in fla. he runs SAE 30 oil because of the ambient temp. in fla. when he (or she) get to min. the driver finds the SAE 30 is to viscious or thick to handle the sub zero temps and is having a hard time starting the vehicle. after changing oil to an SAE 15W the starting problem is solved and he can continue on. when he gets back to fla. he finds the SAE 15W is to thin due to the high temps. in fla. therefore the lubricant can not protect the engine like it should.
thus, they have made multi viscosity oils. the point is not that a certain oil is thicker or thinner because under different circumstances they will all flow the same it just depends on the temp. of the product.
how many times have we been in the north woods and the temp. has been -30* one day and 30* the next? i've seen it! make sure you choose an oil that is best for your climate and has a broad viscosity range to cover those sudden changes in weather!
basically the ultimate protection for any motor would be a 0W-60 but the viscosity range of that oil is nearly impossible to achieve
i run amsoil 0W-40 four stroke in mine and i love it!
next post on different comparitive tests run by the american petroleum institute(API) and exactly how and why an oil breaks down !
_________________
my head hurts after writing all of this!!!
__________________
www.SSOilTech.com
for amsoil products delivered to your door!
click on the "enter store" link
i posted this in the tech sec. of ty earlier this year. hope it helps and if you have any question feel free to ask. synthetic is definitely better and no dealer or manufacturer can void a warrenty for not using thier product, they will all tell you that to force you to buy thier oil but it is illegal and they can be sued over it! check out this post!
The Breakdown on oil
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
for all those who have ever wondered about what type/wieght of oil to use, hopefully this helps!
Posted: Tue Jul 11, 2006 3:55 pm Post subject:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
the society of automotive engineers(SAE) have established 12 different viscosity grades. vicosity grades will determine the oils dynamic viscosity and kinematic viscosity.
the dynamic viscosity is the first # you see usually followed by a W , which , yes , you can associate that # with winter to help you think of how it performs in cold weather.the SAE has determined 6 grades of "winter" formulas beginning with 0W and working up to 25W in 5 point incriments. what they are measureing with this is the lubricants ability to pump 60,000centipointe units with no yield stress at certain temps. for ex.
0W = 60,000 cP @-40*C
5W = 60,000 cP @-35*C
10W = 60,000 cP @ -30*C and so on till 25Wwhich is 60,000 cP@-15
basically the smaller the # the better protection for colder temps.
the next # measures the lubricants ability to pour or its kinemetric viscosity, which is measured by the time it takes an oil to pour out of a container. the temp. is always consistant at 100*C (212*F)
this is #ered from 20 -60 in 10 pt incriments and is measured using sabolt universal second(sus) for ex.
sae20@100*c will empty in min.5.6sus and a max. of9.3sus
30 = 9.3sus - 12.5sus
40 = 12.5sus- 16.3sus
60 = 21.9sus - 26.1sus
in other words the oil will empty out of the container just by pouring in 5.6 seconds (roughly) to 9.3 seconds
remember you do not want your oil viscosity to thin in hot temps. because you will lose you ability to lubricate and protect your engine.
a good ex is this. a truck driver leaves florida with a load of oranges heading for minnesota, in fla. he runs SAE 30 oil because of the ambient temp. in fla. when he (or she) get to min. the driver finds the SAE 30 is to viscious or thick to handle the sub zero temps and is having a hard time starting the vehicle. after changing oil to an SAE 15W the starting problem is solved and he can continue on. when he gets back to fla. he finds the SAE 15W is to thin due to the high temps. in fla. therefore the lubricant can not protect the engine like it should.
thus, they have made multi viscosity oils. the point is not that a certain oil is thicker or thinner because under different circumstances they will all flow the same it just depends on the temp. of the product.
how many times have we been in the north woods and the temp. has been -30* one day and 30* the next? i've seen it! make sure you choose an oil that is best for your climate and has a broad viscosity range to cover those sudden changes in weather!
basically the ultimate protection for any motor would be a 0W-60 but the viscosity range of that oil is nearly impossible to achieve
i run amsoil 0W-40 four stroke in mine and i love it!
next post on different comparitive tests run by the american petroleum institute(API) and exactly how and why an oil breaks down !
_________________
my head hurts after writing all of this!!!
__________________
www.SSOilTech.com
for amsoil products delivered to your door!
click on the "enter store" link
ReX
TY 4 Stroke God
Actually depending on the design of the engine (bearing clearances, bearing diameters, rpm range, oil flow circuit, oil pump characteristics, etc.) there will be a specific ideal viscosity to lubricate the engine.
Most (not all) modern engines are designed to operate with an oil thickness equivalent to approximately 10 sus.
Yamaha for example wants us to run an oil with a 30 weight at operating temperature. 30 weight at an operating temp of 100°C is roughly 10 sus. Since our engines run a little colder, the oil is likely a little thicker.
0w40 is probably a little on the thick side, but not likely to cause problems. 0w60 would very likely be too thick. An oil that is too thick can't be pumped in the proper volumetric flow rate throughout the oiling system.
A truely ideal oil would maintain the same sus measurement over all temperatures. Since this doesn't exist, 0w30 is probably the best, a synthetic 5w30 is probably OK (if you're out of warranty), and 0w40 would also probably be OK (Amsoil specifies 0w40 for use in the Apex and will apparently back that up if you have engine problems).
As the engine wears, a slightly thicker sus is required so for a higher mileage sled 0w40 is probably ideal. What mileage this becomes ideal? - who knows?
Your best bet is to stick with oil that fully complies with Yamaha's specs.
Most (not all) modern engines are designed to operate with an oil thickness equivalent to approximately 10 sus.
Yamaha for example wants us to run an oil with a 30 weight at operating temperature. 30 weight at an operating temp of 100°C is roughly 10 sus. Since our engines run a little colder, the oil is likely a little thicker.
0w40 is probably a little on the thick side, but not likely to cause problems. 0w60 would very likely be too thick. An oil that is too thick can't be pumped in the proper volumetric flow rate throughout the oiling system.
A truely ideal oil would maintain the same sus measurement over all temperatures. Since this doesn't exist, 0w30 is probably the best, a synthetic 5w30 is probably OK (if you're out of warranty), and 0w40 would also probably be OK (Amsoil specifies 0w40 for use in the Apex and will apparently back that up if you have engine problems).
As the engine wears, a slightly thicker sus is required so for a higher mileage sled 0w40 is probably ideal. What mileage this becomes ideal? - who knows?
Your best bet is to stick with oil that fully complies with Yamaha's specs.
Been running Amsoil 0W40 since engine break in was completed and their synthetic gear oil in the chaincase. Over 4,000 miles and the only problem I keep having with the '05 is with the damn rear skid. 
RX1-er-2005
Expert
RX-1MAN said:Been running Amsoil 0W40 since engine break in was completed and their synthetic gear oil in the chaincase. Over 4,000 miles and the only problem I keep having with the '05 is with the damn rear skid.
At what intervals do you change oil and filter, do you run it longer and any oil consumption, how much oil do you use between changes or any?
I'm seriously considering going to AMSOIL 0W-40 full syn. I've been running YAMALUBE 0w-30, I'm just trying to get more miles between oil changes, like maybe 5000kms or so can it be done with AMSOIL???
For rear skid what kind of problems, I pretty well worked them all out with a few mod's, I've got close to 9000kms on mine(RX1-ER '05), well actually about 5000 kms with revised rails and mods to rear skid and still in very good shape...I'd be glad to help you out in anyway.
Change oil and NAPA filter once a year or 2,000 miles. Don't need to add any oil between changes. Rear skid is in need of a 4th RA cable! All the small idler wheels that were replaced last year under warranty with '06 wheels are shot, didn't last as long as the originals. Rear axle wheels are toast, will be installing the cheaper Yamaha ones that you can actually replace the bearing in. Need to take a closer look at the front torque arm, think it is cracked again too.
