Yamaha "a marketing company"

[pwa]

My point is just because Yamahas are heavy doesn't make them bad machines. Its one of many factors that doesn't always play as in important role as some make it out to be.

Are you sure you want to say less weight is always better? What about the Ski-Doos bending frames? Why did Yamaha use a thicker gauge aluminum than any other manfacturer in the SRX tunnels? The four stroke motors weight more than the two stokes but not 100lbs more. The reality is Yamaha is making their sleds heavier because there is a compromise to less weight. Thats strength and durability. Less weight is not always better. The formula one analogy makes a point but one thing you fail to recognize is formula one cars are designed to last one season, and even so, during the season are subjected to all kinds of maintanance to keep them going.

All I am saying there are other attributes to a machine and you gotta think outside the box a little. Either way I am interested in seeing what this power steering does for the feel of the machine.

I think that there is no snowmobile on the market who has better finish than Yamaha. And yes they are the most reliable machines in the world. This is where my hopes comes in, I know that they can make dirt bikes, super sport bikes which is durable and light weight. I also know that a dirt bike changes oil after 10 hours and that I don't want that in a future snowmobile.

What I know also is that Yamaha build a machine that could host 290 hp and the frame, the boogie, the engine puts up with that. In my humble and maybe stupid conclusion something is widely overbuilt. I believe that Yamaha can do a reliable lightweight sport machine without bend their high quality goals.

Other aspects on light weight is that the spare parts is so much more expensive if they built of magnesium-aluminum or titan alloys. So you are right there is not always positive aspects of shaving off weight.

I don't think that power steering is a bad thing but I would rather see that in touring and utility sleds. My wishes are that I can own a 4-stroke from Yamaha and be happy with it. That is what I'm talking about. My snowmobile is super fun and I'm very happy with it but smelling 2-stroke, keep higher maintainency on everything from engine, diamond drive and so on is not my goal either. I have lots of issues for the Cats to but this is a Yamaha forum.

 

[whitedust1]

Why not just wait until Feb 2nd & read up on what "IT" is...Then soak on "IT" ...then grab a demo ride on "IT" .....then buy "IT" or don't buy "IT" if price is right. All this speculation seems pointless without the hard facts......just useless jabber. Nothing here that has not been said 1000X since release of the Apex in 06. If Yamaha wants us to know then let us know just a confusing mess now. I would not buy "IT" without riding "IT" anyway & don't let the Rags make up my mind about "IT". I have to look, touch feel & ride. Is "IT" for me??...... only I know that answer.

 

[BURMAD69]

I've been on yammys all my life and the ads never change they always talk big and deliver little. but for some reason I've owned somewhere around 40 differnt ones. I would have to say in my book the biggest hype was for the 92 V-max 4. (Wish I still had that one)

 

[99SRX700]

PWA, I don't think what you are saying is stupid at all. You make good points. I am just trying to remind everyone that everything comes with a compromise, whether it be price or durability. Not everyone cares about the weight of their machine. I would much rather have a durable well balanced heavy machine than a light tin can. Right now unless you use a material other than aluminum, which they won't cause that will make things waaaay too expensive, we are forced to deal with the compromise of durability in lighter machines. Seeing as how four stroke engines last a lot longer, to me this is important.

This new sled doesn't have to be light and produce a ton of power. There are other things a manufacturer can do to snowmobile that will make it competitive in the market. Thats all I am saying. Everyone is so hooked on light weight and power, we just need to be a little more open minded and see what other things a manufacturer can bring to the table. I am really excited to see what this power steering will do for the sport as a whole down the line. Maybe nothing, but then again, maybe when the patent is up we will see every other manufacturer use it.

 

[whitedust1]

Are you kidding all kinds of ways around power steering patent on sleds. There was a time no cars had power steering or power brakes now are standard features. Just like poo having trouble getting around doos 2s injector patent. Troublesome but doable in time. All that patents do is slow things down & add cost to us the user. Really not a big deal just adds $$$.

 

[SledFreak]

Are you kidding all kinds of ways around power steering patent on sleds. There was a time no cars had power steering or power brakes now are standard features. Just like poo having trouble getting around doos 2s injector patent. Troublesome but doable in time. All that patents do is slow things down & add cost to us the user. Really not a big deal just adds $$$.

I agree... Yamaha had EPS first on their 700 Grizzly ATV in 07. Now they all have it.... 3 years later... BRP released it this year on their ATV's and apparently their's works better then Yamahas...

 

[whitedust1]

Anybody that has been in marketing for any product knows you keep "game chanaging tech" underwraps so the competition has little time to respond to the new product. You catch em flat footed just like doo did with the old rev release in 2003 & Yamaha did the same in 2003 with RX1. No rider forward & no performance 4s sled then BANG we had both in 2003. Since then NO GAME CHANAGERS from anyone just better sleds each year.

When you have new & improved product one that has been tweaked to be the best of that platform you generate a lot of chatter to fill the void. To me Yamaha is suckering the Rags in asking "what do you think after riding this thing?" but we won't tell what it is". All the scribbblers run to their keybords to tell us their faverable impressions as that is their job. Yamaha sits back until Feb 2nd then unveils the new & improved Apex with power steering & other platform tweaks that make it a new & improved Apex.... nothing more. I don't exspect anything more than a new & improved Apex due to the marketing approach. Now, have the Rags go back & say it is just a tweaked up Apex & have them eat their words of 2 weeks ago when this new sled from Yamaha was the best thing since light sliced bread.

This is probably a best of class Apex & really is very difficult to improve the Apex without going back to white sheet design new platform approach. Mean time Yamaha has already countered negative press via the trickle down marketing approach. Smart... maybe we shall see Feb 2.

 

[dirkdiggler]

I think this says it all

An OP-ED piece

I was also selected for the Yamaha Demo-Promo-Feedback-Tell em what you think ride with Tom (Mr Sled) in Hurley yesterday. First off, we had a good group of guys and no problems. The Yammy reps were cordial and took care of us. Everything was on time and well run. Props to Chris and his boyz.

As for Tom's A grades, I'll be a little less generous. I'm not accusing him of being a shill for the man, but we did give him a hard time about that tuning fork tattoo . Don't get me wrong, it is still the best 4-Stoke, period! Which is conflicting for me personally because it offends my patriotism riding a foreign sled. But that is my personal issue. I’ve bought 5 Yammy 4-strokes, so you’d think I’d be getting over it.

If you are contemplating plunking down a big stack Benjamin's for an ‘11 sled expecting something new, I expect you will be disappointed. Really it is the same old, same old since ‘06. Yes there are refinements, but they are in no way worth the price of admission. Upgrading from your old Apex is only for the sake of upgrading. There is nothing revolutionary being presented.

Nearly everyone riding yesterday said the same things. Darty, inside ski lift, etc….all the same issues that have been discussed right here for years. The ride and handling were really the same as previous years. Maybe an improvement in clutching or mid-range power….hard to tell without riding your old sled simultaneously. The seat seamed to be better…again hard to tell. So... if it's hard to tell....there nothing revolutionary here.

I give them C’s across the board. Harsh….maybe….but in my opinion a revamp is overdue. If they want A’s from me…..it’ll take more than a new-old hand warmer switch.

Tom, I think your Blue Blood is showing. LOL

Frank

 

[RW06GT]

It would appear that one of the sleds may have been set up differently than the others.

Darting... are you kidding me...LOL, I took the sled that everyone was complaining about and drove that the rest of the day with some minor adjustment on the tunnel and there was no darting... I too noticed the ski lift and push of the front end as far as bleed blue... you can judge me how ever you want... I speak my mind and I think all that rode with me in Hurley are well aware....

this is the problem with us posting our ride results... if you dont push the sled you dont appreciate it.... and how I judge the sled is just that my opinion.... so dont post on my behalf Frank.

 

[99SRX700]

Personally I have always said that a sleds performance is all about how its set up. It can turn a sled into a completely different machine. I also believe most people don't put the effort into understanding what changing the set up can do for the machine, and how to set it up for their riding style. The truth about demos is you aren't seeing the sleds full potential since it takes time to learn how certain adjustments effect the machines performance, and then figure out how to set it the way you want it. This is something to be considered when hearing any feedback on these machines.