Yamaha "a marketing company"

[99SRX700]

The problem we are facing here is the spec oriented people. Have you ever heard of the Feature and Benefits concept? Its the idea that a feature in itself is nothing, and that what one should trully be focused on is the benefit. Power Steering is a feature, making the sled feel light and being able to respond almost effortlessly to anything the sled does would be the benefit.

Years back my buddy bought an Acura Integra Type R. It was a limited build version of the regular Integra. It was used and he paid far more for it than he would have paid for the regular model of the same condition. At the time I thought he was nuts because when I looked at the specs for the Type R it didn't seem to vary a whole lot from the regular integra to justify the price difference, but when I drove it I realized it was a whole other level of performance. What those little changes did for the overall performance and feel of the car was amazing. Sometimes specs don't seem that appealing but when you actually experience the changes for yourself you learn that whats seems small on paper can be huge in the real world. Hence, the benefit has more significance than the feature itself.

Right now we only know the specs, the real question is what real world effect will they have on the overall performance of the machine? Lets not forget that power steering is something new to the sport and we have no idea what it could do. Maybe that in itself will be enough to bring the sled to a whole other level. My theory is Yamaha's new ski is excellent but the compromise of its design is the fact that it steers heavy, which they will compensate for with the power steering. My prediction for 2011 is a sled with excellent skis, and that the power steering will be a better improvement than we ever thought. Between this, and the changes to the geometry in the front end, it sounds like we could be looking at a machine with incredible handling, and a whole new level of control with the power steering that the sport as a whole has never seen before.

 

[pwa]

I always drove a Yamaha

The game has changed will Yamaha do that? A great game changer for Yamaha was the RX-1, going in to 4-stroke was a good move for Yamaha. But then the game has turned a couple of times. There is no other brand who has so many aftermarket replacement parts as Yamaha.

OFF TOPIC

 

[pwa]

After reading yellowknife... OFF TOPIC

 

[Sled Dog]

Re: I always drove a Yamaha

The game has changed will Yamaha do that? A great game changer for Yamaha was the RX-1, going in to 4-stroke was a good move for Yamaha. But then the game has turned a couple of times. There is no other brand who has so many aftermarket replacement parts as Yamaha.

My first snowmobile was an Exciter 440 a lightweight swift bullet who I could pull, turn and play with. Later it was an SR-V in early 90's I changed to a Phazer II and still I luved my Yamahas.

I changed up from that one to a SXR 500 and later an SXR 700. The 700 never met my expectations. I later bought an SX Viper Mountain, bought an SLP pipe, a engine torque rod, rebuilt the NO-ACTION boogie. I was never to happy with that sled. In 2004 I bought an Yamaha RX-1 Warrior and tried with every meen to rebuilt it to meet my expectations. It never met it so after three months I sold it.

I bought an F7 and I felt that this is more of my kind of machine, after that a Ski-Doo Rev Summit 600 and in 2007 I bought an CF8, this year I changed to an 2010 CF8 and I must say I'm the happiest guy in the world, except the skiis, going to SLP PP-skiis.

What is this letter all about? I think ppl who doesnt like the path Yamaha is going down on should go out there and try other brands. You may find what you are seeking there. I bailed the Yamaha train just because they does'nt make a machine for me anymore. If Yamaha wanted to build lightweight machines they had done it.

My kind of driving is more or less 80 % off track and Yamaha has nothing in that segment of snowmobiles, the closest they come is the XTX and I don't think its a good of pist snowmobile.

What about the new ones then? I know one thing the 3rd party sellers of lightweight parts is going to cheer even this year. Ppl who thinks that Yamahas effort last year on Mountains was nothing more than lame doesnt know anything of offpist sledding. The Apex was untouched so Yammie has nothing in the 800 segment the best one they built was in 2006 and that is sad. In the 600 segment I promise you that an M6, RMK600 or a Summit 600 XP is leaving the Yammie so far behind that you would not believe it.

Don't get me wrong, as a trail transport vehicle Yamaha is still a very good snowmobile as Toyota is a very good car. But is it fun? I don't think so.

So Yamaha, please shave some weight off, lower the enigne, be more pro active in all the segments of snowmobiling. Power steering put weight on not off, the physical laws applies to sleds more than any vehicle. Please Yamaha, please!

Really then who RULES the big iron shootout????? Come on now say it! Yea thats right its Yamaha and the last time I saw it there was more like 80 feet of snow and almost straight up vertical wall of snow. Now is that a trail sled. The only trail there is the parts trail left off the competition sleds rolling down the mountain not up trying to keep up with the Yammi's

 

[Sno-Xr]

Re: I always drove a Yamaha

Really then who RULES the big iron shootout????? Come on now say it! Yea thats right its Yamaha

Oh, is there a stock class?? Climbing a wall with a $30,000 sled with Yamaha Plastic and super charged Apex motor, doesnt defend Yamaha very well.

 

[pwa]

Re: I always drove a Yamaha

Off Topic

 

[99SRX700]

I love how those that Yamaha's don't appeal to insist they are an inferior machine and then use technical spechs like weight etc to back up their argument. In '04 my buddy had a REV and all he did was talk about how it was the perfect machine. Well good for him, frankly I hated it. It killed my knees cause it swept my ankles too far back forcing me to sit with my legs at an angle that was not good for me. It didn't handle well at high speeds on the open trails we used to run so frequently (I would lose him like nothing on my SRX), but it did handle better in tighter wooded trails cause thats what the sled was built for. The bottom line is the REV was not better than the SRX, it was better for certain things. I would kill him in the fast open trails cause he just couldn't corner at speed like I could on my SRX, but he would put on the pressure in the tight wooded areas simply because the sled was better than that. For a guy who doesn't ride hard in open trails, the SRX was a terrible machine, but for someone who did often see these conditions it was a diamond in the rough.

There is a huge market out there for the Apex. Sure its heavy but how does the saying go? Where I come from we ride our snowmobiles, we don't carry them. I understand for some that weight is an issue, like in the powder, or if your into jumping, but those people have to understand that just because a sled isn't right for them doesn't mean its inferior for everyone. To me if your on packed trails and don't plan on jumping or riding powder the Apex definately holds its own. A while back I demoed all kinds of machines on some pretty beat up trails and the Apex GT with the Ohlins was by far the best in overall performance. I never noticed the weight at all. Frankly I think those who do are too busy thinking about what they read in the magazines then what they are actually feeling when they get on their sleds. Like I said in my earlier reply, people get so caught up in the tech bull that they become blind to how the machine actually performs.

 

[SledFreak]

Weight is not an issues, unless the sled responds like it's heavy. Power to weight and blance is the key. My Nytro is heavy, but it pulls the front end up, like it is not. My Apex had more power, but it took alot of work to get it to pull the front end up and it felt heavy...

 

[pwa]

@99SRX700 and SledFreak, come on and get real. There for they build very heavy cars in Formula One? Weight is not an issue. Of course it is. The SRX 700 was a very good trail machine, not for tight cornering but for open trails with long curves. Nice snowmobile indeed. And the 3-cyl engine worked fantastic. But if you had a SRX 700 with lighter chassi, lighter boogie (the laws of unsprung mass) do you truly think the heavier would take the turns as good as the lighter, do you really think that the heavy machine would handle better in rough trail? Of course not, the lighter SRX would win every time. So weight is an issue not only in powder or jumping even if its presence is more obvious there.

About SlefFreak and Apex, it felt like it was heavy because it is heavy. You could take some of that experience away by lifting the front up and using the back as a pivot and therefor do power turns or whatever. But still, when you cornering in high speed or when you go downhill between trees and so on the mass is there, there is no way it will not remind you of its presence.

There is only one time I agree that heavy is good and thats on touring machines. A heavy body and low unsprung mass makes a good recipe for a comfortable machine and comfortable riding. Yes and of course when you are hauling. The RS-Viking is pretty impressive when it takes really heavy loads and the rider can rest on the snowmobile.

And yes 99SRX700 no machine is perfect and could never be because we want so much different stuff from them. But if I for example take CF8 from 2007 and CF8 from 2010 and compare them. 20+ horses more and 30 lbs lighter and I will tell you that it makes all the difference.

And yes SledFreak, balance is a key. If they could do a Nytro with center of gravity like a SRX700 then you had a killer. If you on that shaved off 30 lbs it would be nicer. The engine in Nytro is good enough.

So what do I want from Yamaha? More pro active thinking in all genres. I want a blue haired crossover near completion, a mountain sled worthy its name, a ditch banger in top class. I want a trailblazer in every segment there is. So Yamaha build that for me! If that means that you have to put seat warmers, radio, internal GPS, power steering and a small tv on a touring, do it!

 

[SledFreak]

@99SRX700 and SledFreak, come on and get real. There for they build very heavy cars in Formula One? Weight is not an issue. Of course it is. The SRX 700 was a very good trail machine, not for tight cornering but for open trails with long curves. Nice snowmobile indeed. And the 3-cyl engine worked fantastic. But if you had a SRX 700 with lighter chassi, lighter boogie (the laws of unsprung mass) do you truly think the heavier would take the turns as good as the lighter, do you really think that the heavy machine would handle better in rough trail? Of course not, the lighter SRX would win every time. So weight is an issue not only in powder or jumping even if its presence is more obvious there.

About SlefFreak and Apex, it felt like it was heavy because it was heavy. You could take some of that experience away by lifting the front up and using the back as a pivot and therefor do power turns or whatever. But still, when you cornering in high speed, when you go downhill between trees and so on the mass is there, there is no way it will not remind you of its presence.

There is only one time I agree that heavy is good and thats on touring machines. A heavy body and low unsprung mass makes a good recipe for a comfortable machine. Yes and of course when you are hauling. The RS-Viking is pretty impressive when it takes really heavy loads and the rider can rest on the snowmobile. But don't take it out in the forest.

And yes 99SRX700 no machine is perfect and could never be because we want so much different stuff from them. But if I for example take CF8 from 2007 and CF8 from 2010 and compare them. 20+ more horses and 30 lbs lighter and I will tell you that it makes all the difference.

And yes SledFreak, balance is a key. If they could do a Nytro with center of gravity like a SRX700 then you had a killer. If you on that shaved off 30 lbs it would be nicer. The engine in Nytro is good enough.

So what do I want from Yamaha? More pro active thinking in all genres. I want a blue haired crossover near compleation, a mountain sled worthy its name, a ditch banger in top class. I want a trailblazer in every segment there is. So Yamaha build that for me! If that means that you have to put seat warmers, radio, internal GPS, power steering and a small tv on a touring, do it!

READ BEFORE YOU SPEAK.... I said.... Weight is not really an issue, unless it's balanced and/or the power to weight is correct. Do we agree?

Does a 250hp Turbo work good in the Apex chasssis? Of course it is... Power to weight is the key...

You talk more about MTN riding, go to that form..

 

[pwa]

@SledFreak, sorry if I misunderstood, my fault completely. I talk not only about MTN, my kind of snowmobiles are crossovers or sport. So sorry if I misread you're text.

 

[whitedust1]

I can 't understand what is up with Yamaha? They go around & say test ride this & tell me what you think. Then these articals are written about what?? Nobody knows because Yamaha won't tell. I don't get IT. Whatever IT is no one knows? I'm wondering if Yamaha knows? Then I come to TY & all you guys hate IT. How do you know you hate IT??

 

[TechMaples]

I am going to find an old worn out ovation to ride for the rest of the season, then no matter how dissapointing the "Game Changer" is, I will be blown away. See, problem solved.

 

[SledFreak]

I am going to find an old worn out ovation to ride for the rest of the season, then no matter how dissapointing the "Game Changer" is, I will be blown away. See, problem solved.

LOL, now that was funny....

 

[99SRX700]

My point is just because Yamahas are heavy doesn't make them bad machines. Its one of many factors that doesn't always play as in important role as some make it out to be.

Are you sure you want to say less weight is always better? What about the Ski-Doos bending frames? Why did Yamaha use a thicker gauge aluminum than any other manfacturer in the SRX tunnels? The four stroke motors weight more than the two stokes but not 100lbs more. The reality is Yamaha is making their sleds heavier because there is a compromise to less weight. Thats strength and durability. Less weight is not always better. The formula one analogy makes a point but one thing you fail to recognize is formula one cars are designed to last one season, and even so, during the season are subjected to all kinds of maintanance to keep them going.

All I am saying there are other attributes to a machine and you gotta think outside the box a little. Either way I am interested in seeing what this power steering does for the feel of the machine.