Yamaha R&D PLEASE READ and DELIVER for 2013.

[actionjack]

i have ridden and even heard the new arctic cat 1100 turbo. it rides 120% better than our sleds, ill admit that even as a die hard YAMAHA guy..

i will also say, i HATE the sound of their sleds. i would rather ride the bumble bee sound of a piped 2 stroke twin than i would that turbo tank sounding sled all day. the sled was fast, but i was bored with it mostly due to the sound of it made me want too puke.

the sound of an inline 4 yamaha is next to nothing else on the snow. that is a fact. the rear exit exhaust is a YAMAHA exclusive for a reason. it sounds fantastic, and actually creates power the way it is setup. why do you think the liter road bikes all have rear exit exhaust? because it works!

X2

Ride is subjective and this is not a universally held opinion. Not everyone prefers the ride of an XP or the new Cats. Whatever they do, lets hope they do a better job finding the 1st year issues than Cat did - the 2012s have way too many problems and the list is growing as the snow falls. I'd be pissed if I was 12 grand deep in kitty litter this season.... Or Maybe I'd stage a crash for insurance and YouTube advert dollars.

 

[cat hunter]

i will also say, i HATE the sound of their sleds. i would rather ride the bumble bee sound of a piped 2 stroke twin than i would that turbo tank sounding sled all day. the sled was fast, but i was bored with it mostly due to the sound of it made me want too puke.

the sound of an inline 4 yamaha is next to nothing else on the snow. that is a fact. the rear exit exhaust is a YAMAHA exclusive for a reason. it sounds fantastic, and actually creates power the way it is setup. why do you think the liter road bikes all have rear exit exhaust? because it works![/quote] Well said!!!

 

[minks_698]

OK, if we wanna talk Nytro improvements - mountain or trail, how about just installing the GYT rear suspension kit, a 25 lb weight savings, from the FACTORY. Then ditch the front, high CG mounted radiator for some tunnel coolers to cut ice build-up. How about a revised front end with +2 forward (or more) a-arms, with less bump steer and a stronger subframe. A steering post with a more upright angle, yeah, new tunnel and running board grips already mentioned. This is just the tip o' the iceburg. Just do something for 2013!

 

[Sled Dog]

I also would like to remind everyone to keep this civil or it will be gone.

 

[AKrider]

Weight is the biggest factor for me when considering a Yamaha for a mountain sled. Until they lighten them up I don't think I'd seriously look at one.

Now that I've been riding a lighter weight 2-stroke this season back to back with my Nytro, I've been finding myself questioning some of the reasoning I used to buy my two Yamahas. I still like the 4-stroke concept but I want it in a much lighter sled. Why can't I have it? A YZ250F dirt bike is the same 227 lb wet weight as a YZ 250 two stroke. The YZ 450F is only 18 lbs more. If the weights can be so close in dirt bikes there is no reason they can't be as close in sleds. Even with quads, a 2-stroke Banshee actually weighed 26 pounds more than a YFZ 450R sport quad.

So I don't get it? Why does Yamaha produce 4-stroke sleds that weigh so much when they don't have to? They don't need to use expensive or exotic materials to get the weight down, they just need to build the sled with light weight as the primary design goal. People can use the argument that a light weight sled doesn't hold up but I don't buy that. My buddy is racing a Ski-Doo XP eTech 600 this season and it has held up just fine. He used to race for Yamaha and had lots of suspension and chassis failures over the years. So much for the heavy mean durable sled argument. I think if Yamaha wants to stay in the game they need to re-examine their current strategy. They aren't selling winter time versions of Harley street bikes, they are selling performance sleds and weight matters!

 

[ViperTurboPete]

I would hate to see this thread gone. I would love to see these threads read out loud (translated in Japanese) at a Yamaha board of director's meeting.

Yes, bikes have lost weight, atv's have lost weight, now the outboards have lost a ton of weight and are the same as two strokes in the bass boat market. Now it is time to focus on the sleds.

We need threads like this to improve the products we ride. Customer feedback is key. Is anyone listening?

 

[lund]

4- Could you guy's PLEASE become friend's with the CAMOPLAST mountian extreme, them track's you seem to be hooked on are a JOKE.

You ridden the new ascent track?

No i haven't, i'ed be interested in trying one but the question is "will it compete head on with the EXTREME or the new PEAK".

The PEAK is a 2.86 pitch and 2.5 inch tall Ascent. Yamaha tested 2.86 pitch versions of the Ascent and the 3" pitch was better.

Maybe for 2013 we might see a 2.5" lug 3" pitch Ascent on a new factory boosted mountain sled

Well i cannot comment, i haven't tried one, all i know is the track used on the previous Nytro's and mine is a 2010, are useless and 99% of everyone here in Revy dump the track for a CamoX. The track Yamaha should of installed from the getgo.
2.5" should be the stock track, everyone else has gone that rout.

 

[lund]

Here is a suggestion to Yamaha.
Why not setup an R&D division in BC or Colorado, some where that the terrian runs more vertical and changes more then 500ft.
Setup in a place where the best backcountry/mountian rider's live and ride. They are your best choice for R&D to building a REAL mountian sled.

Anyhow it's a thought.
BTW, i pulled the fuel tank and seat off my Nytro today to inspect the turbo and hoses and do some maintinance.
That multi piece tunnel you guy's made for that Nytro......its a gem
I might know someone that could help you guy's out on that one.

 

[tmk50]

Here is a suggestion to Yamaha.
Why not setup an R&D division in BC or Colorado, some where that the terrian runs more vertical and changes more then 500ft.
Setup in a place where the best backcountry/mountian rider's live and ride. They are your best choice for R&D to building a REAL mountian sled.

Some of the mountain R&D is done out of the Snowy Range in WY - they started doing that in earnest a few years ago (about the same time they started doing the pictures and videos for the marketing materials there) - pretty recent from what I understand. Hopefully bigger and better things are on the way.

 

[yamahahaapex]

put it this way, in 07 when the phazer came out and they had horrible icing issues. did they really test them before distribution? the answer was obvious in 20kms as my tunnel was frozen so bad my heat exchanger was overheating with no snow to get to it. they need to test their prototypes in snow not just on a computer.

 

[blueironranger]

now you have to remember, Yamaha has about a 3 year development window on new chassis. Anything complained about in this post MIGHT make it into a 2015 model sled. What ever comes out this year has been in development since 2009-2010 season. I'm still crossing my fingers for a refreshed Phazer with a 100-110hp engine, tweaked front suspension, and 10-20# weight loss (ALOT of steel inthe PZ chassis). That's the only thing I'd trade for in 2014 (waiting a year for teething problems)

 

[4x4]

The Nytro is treated in practice by its owners as a high performance snowmobile. It deserves a high performance four cylinder engine.

 

[Ruckus]

Yep, a 100+hp Phazer with a better rear skid would be awesome. There is 50 lbs to be saved on the Phazer with ease.
Lets face it though, if 4 stroke is the direction Yamaha is going to continue with, there's no way they will be able to come near a 2T in weight. The motors are bigger, have more rotating mass, they can't spin backwards so you need a reverse mechanism, you can't pull them over so they need a starter and battery, to make them comparable to 2T of the same cc's they need to be boosted, which adds more weight and kills the fuel economy. So right off the bat you have 30-50 lbs more sitting over the skis. The rear exiting exhaust forces the gas tank to sit high above the tunnel and further increases the center of gravity and we all know how much ice it adds to the rear end. They are going to have to either go back to 2T or re-engineer and lighten the entire sled to accommodate the heavy engine. I really can't see it happening. Now, if they offered a multitude of sleds on one basic platform with a choice of 2T, 4T and boosted 4T then they would definitely have a winning combination. As it stands, these sleds will always perform better on a hard surface. They don't seem to be engineered to deal with the realities of soft snow. Someone tell me if I wrong.

 

[Sled Dog]

Weight is the biggest factor for me when considering a Yamaha for a mountain sled. Until they lighten them up I don't think I'd seriously look at one.

Now that I've been riding a lighter weight 2-stroke this season back to back with my Nytro, I've been finding myself questioning some of the reasoning I used to buy my two Yamahas. I still like the 4-stroke concept but I want it in a much lighter sled. Why can't I have it? A YZ250F dirt bike is the same 227 lb wet weight as a YZ 250 two stroke. The YZ 450F is only 18 lbs more. If the weights can be so close in dirt bikes there is no reason they can't be as close in sleds. Even with quads, a 2-stroke Banshee actually weighed 26 pounds more than a YFZ 450R sport quad.

So I don't get it? Why does Yamaha produce 4-stroke sleds that weigh so much when they don't have to? They don't need to use expensive or exotic materials to get the weight down, they just need to build the sled with light weight as the primary design goal. People can use the argument that a light weight sled doesn't hold up but I don't buy that. My buddy is racing a Ski-Doo XP eTech 600 this season and it has held up just fine. He used to race for Yamaha and had lots of suspension and chassis failures over the years. So much for the heavy mean durable sled argument. I think if Yamaha wants to stay in the game they need to re-examine their current strategy. They aren't selling winter time versions of Harley street bikes, they are selling performance sleds and weight matters!

For a mountain sled I somewhat agree with you. For the guys who like to cruise on trails or open fields (they probably buy more sleds) the weight is a mute subject and in fact is better for stabilty and comfort. Durability and quality does equal more weight and for the trail riders durabiltiy and reliabilty means either walking, being towed or not. When I am going through ungroomed fields and hitting drifts I am glad my sled is heavier to take the pounding and keep the sled more stable instead of launching. The weight between comparitive 4S HP sleds is very minimal as well. If Yamaha wants to compete in the mountain sled it is going to have to go to 2S for now until they figure out how to get the weight down for the mountain riders.

 

[lund]

Here is a suggestion to Yamaha.
Why not setup an R&D division in BC or Colorado, some where that the terrian runs more vertical and changes more then 500ft.
Setup in a place where the best backcountry/mountian rider's live and ride. They are your best choice for R&D to building a REAL mountian sled.

Some of the mountain R&D is done out of the Snowy Range in WY - they started doing that in earnest a few years ago (about the same time they started doing the pictures and videos for the marketing materials there) - pretty recent from what I understand. Hopefully bigger and better things are on the way.

Well i suspect they are not very good at their job or are NOT mountian rider's. Probably both.
Computer simulation's just doesn't cut it. Anyone with any real life experience as a backcountry rider would without a doubt say that this design is NOT suitable for mountian's and were not doing our customer's a favor by selling it as one.
The biggest problem i see is Yamaha is building a UNIVERSAL chassi (Nytro) and adapting it for the application. Eigther by lengthening the track, changing the shock's ect, ect. That doesn't work.
The mountian segment has SPECIFIC needs and mountian rider's are extremely demanding. So a trail sled cannot be converted to a mountian sleds and be great.
Mountian sled's have to have their own specific design, something Yamaha is not doing.

The funny part is, just having a better grip in the mountian segment would improve their sale's drasticaly. Realy, who watches video's of sled's ripping across a lake or down a trail for an hour......BORRING.
Mountian riding video's make sale's, but if your not competitive in that segment, your out of luck. Not everyone want's or can afford boost so T-struck vids. are a pipe dream for many.