Yamaha snocross team

[T-Bone]

I wish that Yamaha would have never got into Snowcross racing with their 4-strokes. What exactly are they trying to get out of it. The consumer FX Nytro was a done deal by the time they got into snowcross racing last year. So it was developed without being involved in racing at all. I don't buy at all that they are testing and doing R&D for the consumer sleds. No consumer rides their sled anyway near the way the racers do.

Polaris, Ski-Doo and Arctic Cat have been in racing for a very long time and they still can't seem to build a sled that stays together on the trails. Check Dootalk and HCS forums and read the horror stories of how many problems they are having. They have won lots of races but show me where that has translated in quality sled being built for the consmer.

 

[FxsX24]

the only reason yamaha is branded as heavy is cause doo had to start running there mouth about them being light, 5-10 years ago it was about displacement and hp. now its all weight (for the other 3) and yamaha still goes for the power

remember yamaha and doug henry changed supermoto, why cant yamaha and someone change snox

 

[yami ryder]

I just read in supertrax the 2008 yamaha race sled actually weighs within a feather of the polaris race sleds. The Polaris sleds are dominateing snowcross not the much lighter ski doos with blair the pilot. give the boys a few races under their belt they will start winning and when they do it will be only a matter of time till we see 4 srokes from all 4 racing snow cross, not any different from motocross.

 

[LJ 452]

I think the problem is that we all want them to win now. When in reality it's going to take a while for them to start being a regular threat. The fact is among all the other factors, all of the tracks are setup for the 2 stroke. Once Yamaha fights their way into the mix, they will start to change the the face of SnoX. Likely Poo and Cat will have to go 4 stroke (EPA) then there is no doubt that the tracks will start to change in to a 4 stroke format. Which I feel will be more exciting to watch as it's more of a finess style. I think it shows more of the raw skill not just "wow can that guy hang on" reaction.

 

[vip8]

I agree that there should be more grass roots race teams, But as long as one mfg. has the big trailer and the over paid driver they all have to follow suit. If they dont that mfg. leaves a lot of advertising on the table. Grass roots starts with you and I shelling out some $$ to get competitive and noticed by the mfg. and that means racing on your dime for a minumum of two years with top five finishis every time you are on the track. Thats in semi-pro or pro. If your racing sport class I would not expect much help from a mfg. If you look at other mfg's race bugets you would be shocked how much they spend compared to Yamaha. Last I herd Polaris is at about 4 mll. for the season Yamaha 750,000. That may seem like a lot of $$ but if you start to divey it out to guys who are not competitive it's all for nothing. I would rather see them do the development with the three guys they have and get the sled better before they give it to some joe-blow semi-pro who would not give good R&d feed back to the race dept.

 

[john_the_fisherman]

It's really hard to make a fair comparison b/w the '97 supercross season and the current snocross effort for a couple of big reasons. First, AMA allowed a consession in 1996 for Yamaha to run the YZ400F because they didn't really have a solid 4 stroke rule in the books because it was never really an issue before, so essentially Yamaha ran that season on a loophole. KTM were the only ones really trying to push 4 strokes at the time and they didn't really have a set group of people racing them. So the 1997 YZ400F was basically a complete works bike and AMA hadn't allowed true works bikes since the early '80s when Team Honda HRC got really out of hand and were building $10,000 bikes for Jeff Stanton, Ricky Johnson, etc. So the YZ had a huge advantage in '97. Another advantage was McGrath was racing a very uncompetitive, ill-handling Suzuki that season and had a really bad year. Plus the tractible power of the 4 stroke was initially a big advantage, because it put the power to the ground so efficiently. Let's also not forget, Yamaha had Doug Dubach testing that 4 stroke on tracks dialing out the bugs for a long time before it ran it's first supercross race. And Dubach is probably one of the best motocross R&D guys in the sport.

I do think if Yamaha could go with a 1000cc two cylinder, 130 HP 4 stroke and shave off another 10-20 lbs, they could dominate snocross with the right rider. Someone like a Brett Bender or Levi Lavallee, a rider that's gonna bring it and not try to finesse the sled too much. I don't think its the weight so much as where the weight is placed on the current sled and I've been at a half dozen races and watched the Nytro hammer through the track and it's pretty obvious that the balance is off. Yamaha claims that with a counter balancer a two cylinder would weigh as much as a three, but from taking apart motorcycle engines for 20 years I don't buy it. There are a lot of moving parts in one cylinder of a 4-stroke, not to mention shaving 4-5" off the width of the block. Ducati twins have been winning and building big power on the superbike tracks for years against 4 cyls, albeit theirs is a v-twin.

 

[AKrider]

John,
I agree. A few months ago I started a thread taking CC's compared to HP and determined Yamaha could be competitive with a twin cylinder, 850 CC motor (could be based off the TDM) and be lighter weight than the current 3-hole motor.

I really like my Nytro, but no sh!t, you can feel the heavy front end while in the air. I personally don't think it is the ticket to be successful in sno-x but it will be competitive in XC.

IMO, Yamaha should be focusing on XC because of their reliability and MPG. They already have advantages over the two strokes and they are significant as compared to snocross.

 

[Superman]

JMO. If snowcross involvment was a direct reflection on how good the production sleds are then Yamaha would be dead last in the Market. But the truth is Yamaha probably makes the best sleds on the planet. To Yamaha running their own snowcross effort???? I say more power to them. Could some other team have elevated Yamaha to a championship? Only if that team has the #1 rider in the world. Cory Davidson, Blair Morgan, James Stewart,......The cream rises. If your the best it doesn't matter what manufacturer your on. Is Yamaha handcuffed on the weight issue? It looks that way to Me. But Yamaha keeps cutting the gap.

I want to see Yamaha cutting their costs and lowering the price of their sleds. Not raising overhead. Its getting tough to buy new sleds.LOL. JMO.

 

[FxsX24]

. Someone like a Brett Bender or Levi Lavallee, a rider that's gonna bring it and not try to finesse the sled too much.

bender is a freak. he was doing heel clickers at the PitX race in verona, and pointed to the racer as he passed them in the air.

dominated the pro open class too

 

[john_the_fisherman]

LOL He is a freak, but I like it! He is damn fast. Plus, according to a couple of guys I know that race Polaris, the open motors Tim Bender is building for them have about 10 HP on every other Polaris mill in the pits. If Yamaha could get him back tuning and get the Kid racing. Wouldn't it be nice.

IMO, Kirk Hibbert and Tim Bender will go down as two of the best sled tuners/minds that ever lived. Their racing records weren't too shabby either.

 

[snoman]

say can some body record some snow cross racing for me ?just wanna watch my brand in the race.

 

[vip8]

I also agree with some of what John posted, But in supercross know a days at least the top ten riders have full-out works bikes it's just not public knowlage like it uesed to be. There is no way any body can get the parts that are on James's bikes, even his mechanic isnt alowed to open the engine it comes sealed from Japan if they have a problem there's probably five more in the hualer. I have a buddy that ran the kawi water craft team and then went to the supercross program after pwc racing went south and he said most of the techs are parts changers for the Japs. I'm pretty sure that would go for all four brands. I agree that the engine is in the wrong location on the Nytro, needs to be more central. I see Ymaha fixing that rather than tooling up another engine with the same power only 7-10 lbs. lighter, there are a lot more places to lose 10 lbs. that are less evasive. The other thing about supercross as a comparision is that those bikes are built to be rode that way, just like the 300 unit build snocross sleds we see from cat and pol. IMO if you want to race and catch 60 ft of air buy a porpose built sled not a production one and then complain it doesnt compeat, "It Should'nt. I feel for the race team, theres only so much R&D you can do before eventully you have to race aginst the compition to see where you stand. They will figure it out it's just all brand new right now and we all want to see our sled be the best on the track.

 

[RJH]

Ihave full-out works bikes it's just not public knowlage like it uesed to be. There is no way any body can get the parts that are on James's bikes, even his mechanic isnt alowed to open the engine it comes sealed from Japan if they have a problem there's probably five more in the hualer. .

I don't think that's true - I don't believe "full out works" bikes are allowed in supercross. I may be wrong.

E.G. They have better quality pistons - but so can anybody else at a cost locally. They don't have any more HP than anyone else can buy locally either.

I think the tuners are USA dudes - they have the depth in racing. Yamaha factory engineers take the input after the race and deal with it. Listen to the top three after the race as they thank their wrenches. Or at the gate or in pit interviews.

What they have is the crew (see my previous post) and the complete package - from rubber on up - its not one part that wins. Every nut and bolt on Bubbas bike is better tuned than the competition setup.

Plus ....he uses it well.

You make some good points about the sled...but….that crew has torches….wrenches…paper and pencils and all equipment (just like the rest of them) to work – this is open mod….. they haven’t figured out 4/ thinking yet. The package is there – just asking to be released.

The level they are at is with the best in the world – this ain’t gonna be easy.

 

[PureBlue]

Just to let everyone know, I was watching Friday Night Thunder at Eagle River last night. They had sno-x in the middle of the track. The last sno-x race of the night was the pro open, and Ugi from Yamaha was racing. He ended up getting 3rd, I tell you what, him and the sled looked really good on the track, it did not look heavy to me. He was grtting some good air to.

 

[vip8]

I've Been good freinds with Doud Henry for years and I know that no other riders have the same parts as the factory guys do nor can they get them. True bubba probably dose not need it. It goes back to my prev. post that if you want all the good stuff you first have to prove your skill. My posts are getting alittle off topic know. All-n-All The sno-cross team is doing what they should be doing IMO. It just stinks that it has to be in the lime light like it is. They will be competitive it just takes time. Thats good for Yugi but who else is there, every body else is at West Yellow Stone. Not to take anything away from a podium finsh thats great.