MNBlizzard
Expert
I don't know about this first hand because I own a 2003 RX. I did however read the above posts and I'm some what amazed that you ride ("trails only") for 3k plus miles and expect Yamaha to automatically cover all parts and labor for the suspension.
I don't think it is a big secret that the suspensions on our beloved Yammi's leave more to be desired. They have since my very first sled a 1981 Enticer; as well as my 1992 Phazer, 1995 Vmax, 2003 SXR and RX-1.
But come on, own up to some of the failure, don't be so harsh on Yamaha and be a little more considerate of your dealer that is just trying to get by in these tough times. I think covering the parts is more than fair.
I don't think it is a big secret that the suspensions on our beloved Yammi's leave more to be desired. They have since my very first sled a 1981 Enticer; as well as my 1992 Phazer, 1995 Vmax, 2003 SXR and RX-1.
But come on, own up to some of the failure, don't be so harsh on Yamaha and be a little more considerate of your dealer that is just trying to get by in these tough times. I think covering the parts is more than fair.
Len Todd
TY 4 Stroke God
The key is the dealer. You nurture a good relationship with them, and they will take care of you. You go in to the dealer's with an attitude, and you will pay for it. Yamaha provided me with a new W-Arm. I put it in. This was even after the YES had expired. I know the dealer was working for me. You get a lot more flies with honey, than you do with vinegar!
sledrider_ny
Newbie
MNBlizzard said:
You think it's fair that you spend extra cash out of your pocket to buy an extended warranty to cover these situations, especially on a well documented problem, and they take a crap down your throat? What exactly should I own up to? Going down a flat trail that I groomed two hours earlier and the damn thing breaks in half? If I'm shelling out extra cash for "piece of mind" as Yamaha calls it, I'd expect them to step up to the plate, not lie about the problem, and cover it. Like I said before, if they didn't have a problem at these weld points, why did they reinforce them on future models. That right there shows fault on Yamahas part.
And as far as the dealer is concerned, they get paid whether it's warrantied or not so it doesn't hurt their business one bit. If they had mentioned the idler bearings were shot before putting it back together they would of made a little more cash. Instead they lost money due to their own negligence. What kind of a mechanic puts something back together that has failed parts on it? An incompetent one if you ask me!
sledrider_ny
Newbie
My problem lays more with Yamaha than the dealer in this situation other than putting it back together with bad bearings. That was never known until the second ride after getting it back so it was never brought up until I came in for new wheels. I've spent a lot of cash through this place over the years and I would expect them to step up to the plate for me and for the most part they did. The decisions were solely on Yamahas part and I was very rational with my dealer. Some of the employees there are personal friends so I know they weren't trying to rake me over the coals. Actually, I was probably a little more rational than I should of been when I found out that the sled had been there for two weeks and they still hadn't contacted Yamaha about the problem. My problem with them lies in their service department. This isn't the first time I've had service related situations there.Len Todd said:
Rockmeister
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Broken W arms have been a very common problem!
See this link:
http://www.ty4stroke.com/viewtopic.php? ... broke++arm
67% of the respondants have had the issue, pretty common...
The "Brick Wall" "We haven't seen this before" response always kills me. lol
A few notes:
My W arm broke and cost me a couple days riding, I re-inforced it well to finish out last year, then replaced it with a Doo Skid!
MAJOR improvement!
Can see the replacement here:
http://www.ty4stroke.com/viewtopic.php?t=64698
(Anything that fails on me, gets replaced with a stronger part. I won't put up with loosing riding time if I can help it! Same thing happened with my secondary, into the trash it went!)
(I now have an unreliable Cat sled I need the money to replace yet, lol)
The $400 surprises me, that is actually a pretty good deal on the labor.
(I know it doesn't seem that way as you are prying the money out of your wallet!)
If you add up all the parts prices, I would bet that you would be amazed how much the warranty DID cover!
The track alone at $400 is a pretty good deal, not counting ANY other parts OR labor.
Although it may not feel like it right now, the warranty paid for itself and THEN some.
This is a good example of why it is important to have a good relationship with your dealer, get on a first name basis.
It makes a huge difference when you need help with something like this.
Had a Cat that needed multiple things, it was NEVER an issue to get the dealer to take care of it.
(Same dealer for my Yamaha btw)
The first name basis thing works...
To be fair to your dealer, I inspected my idlers closely before my last trip, had NO signs of ANY problem.
When I got back, two idlers had de-laminated. Go figure. lol
So even if they did inspect them, they can't predict if they will come apart. Really wouldn't hold that against them.
Your new W arm WILL fail.
It is only a matter of When.
It will only take longer to fail than last time...
I know, you don't want to hear this...
It will start by the paint flaking off the arm where it flexes too much, watch for it.
That will tell you the weak points and where it needs re-inforced.
Rant:
I love my sled & especially the motor, but the rear suspensions kill me...
LOTS of heavy metal and weak all over...
It's like they threw a bunch of metal at the problem without looking at WHAT it needs...
My suspension now is over 30 pounds LIGHTER and is stronger than the existing one was.
That is a good example of using the metal where it is needed.
Watch for the new cracking and fix it before it totally disintegrates is my suggestion.
It is relatively easy to fix once in a while, rather than going through what you did this time.
Hope this helps!
See this link:
http://www.ty4stroke.com/viewtopic.php? ... broke++arm
67% of the respondants have had the issue, pretty common...
The "Brick Wall" "We haven't seen this before" response always kills me. lol
A few notes:
My W arm broke and cost me a couple days riding, I re-inforced it well to finish out last year, then replaced it with a Doo Skid!
MAJOR improvement!
Can see the replacement here:
http://www.ty4stroke.com/viewtopic.php?t=64698
(Anything that fails on me, gets replaced with a stronger part. I won't put up with loosing riding time if I can help it! Same thing happened with my secondary, into the trash it went!)
(I now have an unreliable Cat sled I need the money to replace yet, lol)
The $400 surprises me, that is actually a pretty good deal on the labor.
(I know it doesn't seem that way as you are prying the money out of your wallet!)
If you add up all the parts prices, I would bet that you would be amazed how much the warranty DID cover!
The track alone at $400 is a pretty good deal, not counting ANY other parts OR labor.
Although it may not feel like it right now, the warranty paid for itself and THEN some.
This is a good example of why it is important to have a good relationship with your dealer, get on a first name basis.
It makes a huge difference when you need help with something like this.
Had a Cat that needed multiple things, it was NEVER an issue to get the dealer to take care of it.
(Same dealer for my Yamaha btw)
The first name basis thing works...
To be fair to your dealer, I inspected my idlers closely before my last trip, had NO signs of ANY problem.
When I got back, two idlers had de-laminated. Go figure. lol
So even if they did inspect them, they can't predict if they will come apart. Really wouldn't hold that against them.
Your new W arm WILL fail.
It is only a matter of When.
It will only take longer to fail than last time...
I know, you don't want to hear this...
It will start by the paint flaking off the arm where it flexes too much, watch for it.
That will tell you the weak points and where it needs re-inforced.
Rant:
I love my sled & especially the motor, but the rear suspensions kill me...
LOTS of heavy metal and weak all over...
It's like they threw a bunch of metal at the problem without looking at WHAT it needs...
My suspension now is over 30 pounds LIGHTER and is stronger than the existing one was.
That is a good example of using the metal where it is needed.
Watch for the new cracking and fix it before it totally disintegrates is my suggestion.
It is relatively easy to fix once in a while, rather than going through what you did this time.
Hope this helps!
sledrider_ny
Newbie
rockmeister said:Broken W arms have been a very common problem!
See this link:
http://www.ty4stroke.com/viewtopic.php? ... broke++arm
67% of the respondants have had the issue, pretty common...
The "Brick Wall" "We haven't seen this before" response always kills me. lol
A few notes:
My W arm broke and cost me a couple days riding, I re-inforced it well to finish out last year, then replaced it with a Doo Skid!
MAJOR improvement!
Can see the replacement here:
http://www.ty4stroke.com/viewtopic.php?t=64698
(Anything that fails on me, gets replaced with a stronger part. I won't put up with loosing riding time if I can help it! Same thing happened with my secondary, into the trash it went!)
(I now have an unreliable Cat sled I need the money to replace yet, lol)
The $400 surprises me, that is actually a pretty good deal on the labor.
(I know it doesn't seem that way as you are prying the money out of your wallet!)
If you add up all the parts prices, I would bet that you would be amazed how much the warranty DID cover!
The track alone at $400 is a pretty good deal, not counting ANY other parts OR labor.
Although it may not feel like it right now, the warranty paid for itself and THEN some.
This is a good example of why it is important to have a good relationship with your dealer, get on a first name basis.
It makes a huge difference when you need help with something like this.
Had a Cat that needed multiple things, it was NEVER an issue to get the dealer to take care of it.
(Same dealer for my Yamaha btw)
The first name basis thing works...
To be fair to your dealer, I inspected my idlers closely before my last trip, had NO signs of ANY problem.
When I got back, two idlers had de-laminated. Go figure. lol
So even if they did inspect them, they can't predict if they will come apart. Really wouldn't hold that against them.
Your new W arm WILL fail.
It is only a matter of When.
It will only take longer to fail than last time...
I know, you don't want to hear this...
It will start by the paint flaking off the arm where it flexes too much, watch for it.
That will tell you the weak points and where it needs re-inforced.
Rant:
I love my sled & especially the motor, but the rear suspensions kill me...
LOTS of heavy metal and weak all over...
It's like they threw a bunch of metal at the problem without looking at WHAT it needs...
My suspension now is over 30 pounds LIGHTER and is stronger than the existing one was.
That is a good example of using the metal where it is needed.
Watch for the new cracking and fix it before it totally disintegrates is my suggestion.
It is relatively easy to fix once in a while, rather than going through what you did this time.
Hope this helps!
You know, the funny thing about the whole deal is in the fall before the season started I went over the entire suspension in my pre-season PM and it looked to be in remarkably good condition. I was actually quite surprised to find there were no grease fittings on the 05 mono as well. I was well aware of the problems these suspensions have so I made sure I looked at the suspect areas very closely. Two others with 05 RX-1's that were actually with me when mine failed had had theirs fail on both their sleds the previous year so that alone peaked my concern to look it over good. Everything appeared to be in great condition when I went over it. There was a slight bit of rust showing on the welds but no sign of cracks. I'm sure it's very possible it may have been cracked already but not visible to the eye but it sure looked good. By the time it had come apart though, it was showing considerable rust. I wonder possibly if it wasn't rusting through from the inside due to water getting trapped in there.
The idler wheels on the other hand were bearing failures. I've seen a lot of things in 37 years of riding and wrenching but one thing I've never seen is not one, but two bearings fail in less than 200 miles. I've got to believe they were already bad when the skid was out for the W-arm replacement.
Excellent write up on your sled project and progression. I just spent an hour reading it. Some great ideas there for sure!
Paul 03 & 05 RX1
Newbie
- Joined
- Apr 3, 2009
- Messages
- 22
My 05 broke in the exact same way... I'm lucky i noticed it right away as i was pulling into my yard... no track damage from that transfer rod (or whatever you call it) getting wraped around. i bit the bullet and spent over 400 bones to get the new swingarm... it's worth it... way stronger... more gussets... the tubing is larger and they give you a new longer strap to fit on it.... it hurt and i am pissed off Yamaha engineers would not have designed and tested something stronger... The sled is a lake runner, not a ditch pounder and I ran it accordingly and it still broke.... very disapointing... the motor better go forever to make this up!!!
kinger
VIP Member
That poll shows 15 arms breaking out of how many monoshocks are out there? How many does it take for yamaha to 'admit' to a problem? My guess would be 1000+
I'm not saying its right especialy with you having the YES warranty, but is this really a big deal? I mean buy a used on here, or beef up yours, or replace the skid for something fun. To me this is all part of sledding. Its easy to say "I never abuse the sled" but seriously they go 100mph and little bump even those you dont feel because the suspension is working is taking a toll on suspensions, and to me part of the sport.
How long do you expect it to last? 4000 miles with ZERO service is unrealistic the terrain is just too rough on things groomed or ungroomed.
I'm not taking sides I would be happy they covered the parts, ride another 4000 miles and then beef it up again.
I'm not saying its right especialy with you having the YES warranty, but is this really a big deal? I mean buy a used on here, or beef up yours, or replace the skid for something fun. To me this is all part of sledding. Its easy to say "I never abuse the sled" but seriously they go 100mph and little bump even those you dont feel because the suspension is working is taking a toll on suspensions, and to me part of the sport.
How long do you expect it to last? 4000 miles with ZERO service is unrealistic the terrain is just too rough on things groomed or ungroomed.
I'm not taking sides I would be happy they covered the parts, ride another 4000 miles and then beef it up again.
Paul 03 & 05 RX1
Newbie
- Joined
- Apr 3, 2009
- Messages
- 22
I bought a yamaha for expected better quality and durability. They are the most expensive to buy and I expect a reason for it.
If they want us to maintain them properly why do they cheap out with zero grease points on the rear and put plastic bushings everywhere?
Why do they cheap out on molded bearings in the wheels and we spend $$$ on changing the wheels with pressed bearings??? So we can change the bearings and maintain them.
I don't expect zero maintenance for 4000 miles. I expect not having to replace the entire swingarm due to Catastrophic failures rendering me stranded on the trail and ruining my weekend.
I mean come on this has been going on from model to model... my 05 has 3 winters on it for gods sake, in my eyes it's new! I'm not whining about a 1981 skiddoo blizzard here! It's a 2005 Yami! The blizzard did 100 mph on a good day too ! It's still a problem on the apex's and attacks. Probably just a matter of time before the Nytro's have problem's...
The skid is made of low grade and under gauged metals that could snap at any given moment.... and it isn't after 4000 miles either... it's 1500 and up... If they upgraded to a better grade and added a few pounds this would all be better...
They have engineers, quality control, purchasing sales groups to order the right materials, test bays, state of the art equipment to design and test this stuff...
There's no excuse... I have other toys, other brands... quads and stuff... I've got an old trike thats 25 yrs old and it's tired, beat to hell, but it stills fires right up and would still pull out a stump if I wanted it to !
There's no excuse...
If they want us to maintain them properly why do they cheap out with zero grease points on the rear and put plastic bushings everywhere?
Why do they cheap out on molded bearings in the wheels and we spend $$$ on changing the wheels with pressed bearings??? So we can change the bearings and maintain them.
I don't expect zero maintenance for 4000 miles. I expect not having to replace the entire swingarm due to Catastrophic failures rendering me stranded on the trail and ruining my weekend.
I mean come on this has been going on from model to model... my 05 has 3 winters on it for gods sake, in my eyes it's new! I'm not whining about a 1981 skiddoo blizzard here! It's a 2005 Yami! The blizzard did 100 mph on a good day too ! It's still a problem on the apex's and attacks. Probably just a matter of time before the Nytro's have problem's...
The skid is made of low grade and under gauged metals that could snap at any given moment.... and it isn't after 4000 miles either... it's 1500 and up... If they upgraded to a better grade and added a few pounds this would all be better...
They have engineers, quality control, purchasing sales groups to order the right materials, test bays, state of the art equipment to design and test this stuff...
There's no excuse... I have other toys, other brands... quads and stuff... I've got an old trike thats 25 yrs old and it's tired, beat to hell, but it stills fires right up and would still pull out a stump if I wanted it to !
There's no excuse...
kinger
VIP Member
I think your expecting too much, switch brands and enjoy 4000 trouble free miles.
I'm not brand loyal at all but I can see where yamaha is coming from, everyone and thier uncle is B**** about the weight of these things, B***** about the suspensions that are crap so they patent a monoshock and bring it to market which is a full 20lbs lighter then the previous best thing they had plus is soaks up 8" bumps like they are not there. They are toeing the line between building a overbuilt, overengineered, and overweight suspension like what YOU want vs building one closer to the weight everyone else wants.
Pressed in bearings are lighter then replaceable ones, plastic parts and no zerks are cheaper to help with price. Its easy to critize when yours is broke but step back and look at the big picture imagine if you built 10000 sleds and less then 100 people had something break would you run out and add 20lbs to the weight when your competition is advertising your sled with weights attached to the front of it?
Just fix the darn thing and call it a day
I'm not brand loyal at all but I can see where yamaha is coming from, everyone and thier uncle is B**** about the weight of these things, B***** about the suspensions that are crap so they patent a monoshock and bring it to market which is a full 20lbs lighter then the previous best thing they had plus is soaks up 8" bumps like they are not there. They are toeing the line between building a overbuilt, overengineered, and overweight suspension like what YOU want vs building one closer to the weight everyone else wants.
Pressed in bearings are lighter then replaceable ones, plastic parts and no zerks are cheaper to help with price. Its easy to critize when yours is broke but step back and look at the big picture imagine if you built 10000 sleds and less then 100 people had something break would you run out and add 20lbs to the weight when your competition is advertising your sled with weights attached to the front of it?
Just fix the darn thing and call it a day
ahicks
TY 4 Stroke Master
<<<They are toeing the line between building a overbuilt, overengineered, and overweight suspension like what YOU want vs building one closer to the weight everyone else wants.>>>
If this is the case, why is it that the late model front arm is built so much heavier than the originals? If they see the need for it now, why not then? Why is it that warranty claims against broken front arms and rails are met with claims of customer abuse by Yammi when this new arm exists?
If Yammi is doing such a great engineering job on their skids when compared to state of the art (as something in this price range should be compared), why is it that the other OEMs dont have NEAR the suspension trouble Yammi has? How does Yammi legitimize forcing the purchase of a new spring and custom shock tuning to get it right for so high a percentage of their riders - when the other manfs. seem to have found a calibration thats able to be dialed in by a MUCH higher percentage of it's riders?
Because they have great "fit and finish"? Because they have an awesome motor? Because there's no such thing as a perfect sled/they all have problems? Please........ Even if you could use the logic "they all have problems", what excuse is that for not fixing them year after year, or for that matter even acknowledging that the problems exist.
Sorry for the rant, obviously not happy with Yammi with regards to it's rear suspension technology. FWIW
If this is the case, why is it that the late model front arm is built so much heavier than the originals? If they see the need for it now, why not then? Why is it that warranty claims against broken front arms and rails are met with claims of customer abuse by Yammi when this new arm exists?
If Yammi is doing such a great engineering job on their skids when compared to state of the art (as something in this price range should be compared), why is it that the other OEMs dont have NEAR the suspension trouble Yammi has? How does Yammi legitimize forcing the purchase of a new spring and custom shock tuning to get it right for so high a percentage of their riders - when the other manfs. seem to have found a calibration thats able to be dialed in by a MUCH higher percentage of it's riders?
Because they have great "fit and finish"? Because they have an awesome motor? Because there's no such thing as a perfect sled/they all have problems? Please........ Even if you could use the logic "they all have problems", what excuse is that for not fixing them year after year, or for that matter even acknowledging that the problems exist.
Sorry for the rant, obviously not happy with Yammi with regards to it's rear suspension technology. FWIW
Paul 03 & 05 RX1
Newbie
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- Apr 3, 2009
- Messages
- 22
Expect to much ? So i shouldn't expect what ? Anything to do with quality, durability. Did I say overbuilt... no... but what's the point of building a 25000 mile motor on a 2500 mile skid?
Sorry bud not everyone has a money tree in the back yard and it gets tiring pulling skids out on both my machines time and again and ya I would switch ... but Honda doesn't build sleds.
10000 sleds and only 100 with breaks? Come on. What about all the ones that don't even know about this site? Go to the Forum under any of the sled models... they all have suspension issues.
I guess it's of no concern until some front A-arm's bust off taking the steering rod out and yanking you into a tree at 80+ mph? That happened to my buddy on his Polaris 700 quad at 60 mph on a gravel road... not funny. Lotsa maintenance fixing wear and tear I understand.... but structural failure ?
I guess if the roof on your house fell on your head YOU would just
"fix the darn thing and call it a day..."
Actually you wouldn't be able to fix it cause you'd probably be dead.
But of course you probably will never need to fix it, because that would never happen... probably because it was engineered, designed and built properly....
Go figure.
Sorry bud not everyone has a money tree in the back yard and it gets tiring pulling skids out on both my machines time and again and ya I would switch ... but Honda doesn't build sleds.
10000 sleds and only 100 with breaks? Come on. What about all the ones that don't even know about this site? Go to the Forum under any of the sled models... they all have suspension issues.
I guess it's of no concern until some front A-arm's bust off taking the steering rod out and yanking you into a tree at 80+ mph? That happened to my buddy on his Polaris 700 quad at 60 mph on a gravel road... not funny. Lotsa maintenance fixing wear and tear I understand.... but structural failure ?
I guess if the roof on your house fell on your head YOU would just
"fix the darn thing and call it a day..."
Actually you wouldn't be able to fix it cause you'd probably be dead.
But of course you probably will never need to fix it, because that would never happen... probably because it was engineered, designed and built properly....
Go figure.
Paul 03 & 05 RX1
Newbie
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- Apr 3, 2009
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- 22
Ahicks you're right on the money. We do our job at work and when we cut them a check we expect a reputable company like Yami to do their's.
Simple.
Simple.
woolyviper
TY 4 Stroke Master
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- Mar 24, 2006
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- hibbing,mn
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- USA
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- 2009 Yamaha Phazer RTX
Len Todd said:
X2
Paul 03 & 05 RX1
Newbie
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- Apr 3, 2009
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- 22
Ahicks you should see the new swing arm I bought from Yami for my 05... all sorts of extra gussets, channels, welds and ... bigger size pipe too... it's "over-engineered" so I will give it back to them and spend the weekend welding and re-designing my old one... because it's what "everyone wants"...
