jgustman
Expert
- Joined
- Feb 25, 2005
- Messages
- 202
- Age
- 50
- Location
- Cottonwood, MN
- Country
- USA
- Snowmobile
- '10 Nytro RTX
- LOCATION
- Cottonwood, MN
Guess the title says it all, this is long winded so bear with me... I need some questions answered about how others RTX's suspension is set up. As it sits 1/4 tank of gas if that matters. I've read to run 45-50 psi. in the ski shocks so the a-arms sit level, and mine is darn near on the ground that way, I had to pump them to 80 pounds to get the a-arms level with the ground. I also noticed that if you recheck the air pressures they vary widely and seem to lose up to 10 pounds at times when unscrewing the pump from the fitting (crappy design), doesn't seem right... Also noted that if you pick up the front or push down on it that your pressure changes on the pump guage and will vary high or low, so you never really know for sure what the pressure really is, it depends on how you lifted or pushed down on the front end which changes the shock pressure. The other night in the garage at 50 pounds the a-arms looked level, after riding it tonight they were sunk low and as I said, took 80 pounds to get thea-arms back to level. Any ideas?
Now on to the rear suspension issues. FYI I'm 215 lbs.without gear on. I have the limiter straps in the third hole (stock), front spring with minimal tension, rear springs set on soft, and transfer coupler set with 35 mm of space, near full transfer. So, when I sit on the sled, it sags approx. 2 1/2 inches, then it's a brick. I litterally have to jump on it to get it to move. Are all the stock rear springs this stiff, or has original owner put stiff ones in?
Also noticed that if I push down on the rear grab bar it sinks the first 2 1/2 inches rather easily, then lift up the rear suspension slowly extends, like there is way too much rebound dampening or stickiness in the suspension, you think it would just pack down and not move hardly at all in bumps this way, almost feels like it rides that way to think of it.
After the revalve from Carver Performance, the ride may be a little better than a brick with a track, but not as soft as I expected and am disappointed... I sent him ReX's valving specs for the rear shock listed in the sticky post on RXT shock valving here, but he talked me into just using his 2 stage setup that he sells, stating it would ride similiar to ReX's setup that supposedly rides as good as a rev xp...I don't believe it. I had a 2004 Rev mxzx, it was a caddy compared to this. I also made the mistake of riding my Viper S I just put a M-10 in right before the the newly revalved RTX, and it rides like a dream compared to the revalved RTX suspension. The thing still tosses you on every bump you hit, although that was with the 50 pounds of air/sagging too low front suspension. It feels as if It's using about 1/2 of the total suspension travel, if that, compared to the M-10. I'd compare it to my (now gone)Honda RC-51 sportbike suspension, very stiff, meant for the track where there are no sharp bumps, you will leave the ground on every bump you hit at slow speeds. You didn't want to ride that more that 30 miles either... I'm open to all the answers or suggestions you can give me, because I'm not riding a sled that rides like this, I already have bulged disks in my back and this is only doing more damage.
Everyone said I'd like it much better after the revalve, well it didn't make that much difference, just feels it's sprung way to stiff. I feel as if I have to either put a M-10 in it or sell it and forget I ever saw it. 
Now on to the rear suspension issues. FYI I'm 215 lbs.without gear on. I have the limiter straps in the third hole (stock), front spring with minimal tension, rear springs set on soft, and transfer coupler set with 35 mm of space, near full transfer. So, when I sit on the sled, it sags approx. 2 1/2 inches, then it's a brick. I litterally have to jump on it to get it to move. Are all the stock rear springs this stiff, or has original owner put stiff ones in?
Also noticed that if I push down on the rear grab bar it sinks the first 2 1/2 inches rather easily, then lift up the rear suspension slowly extends, like there is way too much rebound dampening or stickiness in the suspension, you think it would just pack down and not move hardly at all in bumps this way, almost feels like it rides that way to think of it.
After the revalve from Carver Performance, the ride may be a little better than a brick with a track, but not as soft as I expected and am disappointed... I sent him ReX's valving specs for the rear shock listed in the sticky post on RXT shock valving here, but he talked me into just using his 2 stage setup that he sells, stating it would ride similiar to ReX's setup that supposedly rides as good as a rev xp...I don't believe it. I had a 2004 Rev mxzx, it was a caddy compared to this. I also made the mistake of riding my Viper S I just put a M-10 in right before the the newly revalved RTX, and it rides like a dream compared to the revalved RTX suspension. The thing still tosses you on every bump you hit, although that was with the 50 pounds of air/sagging too low front suspension. It feels as if It's using about 1/2 of the total suspension travel, if that, compared to the M-10. I'd compare it to my (now gone)Honda RC-51 sportbike suspension, very stiff, meant for the track where there are no sharp bumps, you will leave the ground on every bump you hit at slow speeds. You didn't want to ride that more that 30 miles either... I'm open to all the answers or suggestions you can give me, because I'm not riding a sled that rides like this, I already have bulged disks in my back and this is only doing more damage.
Everyone said I'd like it much better after the revalve, well it didn't make that much difference, just feels it's sprung way to stiff. I feel as if I have to either put a M-10 in it or sell it and forget I ever saw it. Liquid Blue
Extreme
Sorry for the brief reply, but just for comparisons sake: Mine, '07 RTX I weigh 160 lbs. Revalved rear by Bruce Schrader at Pioneer Perf. I run the floats at 65lbs with the 13 mm sway bar. Be sure to set the float pressure with the front end unloaded. Rear is very progressive, able to be fairly supple through the chatter, but very resistant to bottoming in big g-outs. I run 25-30mm gap on the transfer rods with me on the sled in full gear. Limiter straps in stock position. After a 200 mile day my back is ready for more.
If you are going to spend the money. My M20 rides like a dream under my attak.
You said whemn you push down on the sled the guage moves.The skis should be elevated when you adjust the air in the shock.
shocks
I wasted my time for two years, finally put a gt mono shock in her, now i can ride it.
I wasted my time for two years, finally put a gt mono shock in her, now i can ride it.
smacho
Extreme
Your settings sound simular to mine -- Differences: I weigh 165, revalve @ Pioneer, & I lack the lack the experience of comparing it to ... (much other than a 1973 moto-ski). Perhaps you need to turn in the main spring to account for your weight~?
The skid on mine is stiff, but much-much better than before. Uncontrolled rebound was my biggest problem (no more of that). I have likely adapted my riding style to the skid. I can see that I bounce arround more than other sleds I see ahead of me -- but have just learned to "suck-it-up." ON the bright side, it has never bottomed out. When the track wears out (2-3 years from now) I intend to replace the skid and stretch it out with what-ever is available then.
THere is snow here (again & only for a few days - rain forcast Monday) so I am going to make use of it ... I will check my float pressures (but I think it is like 75 PSI with sled weight on them. I'll look it over & confirm my settings, but it does not seem as bad as your sounds.
The skid on mine is stiff, but much-much better than before. Uncontrolled rebound was my biggest problem (no more of that). I have likely adapted my riding style to the skid. I can see that I bounce arround more than other sleds I see ahead of me -- but have just learned to "suck-it-up." ON the bright side, it has never bottomed out. When the track wears out (2-3 years from now) I intend to replace the skid and stretch it out with what-ever is available then.
THere is snow here (again & only for a few days - rain forcast Monday) so I am going to make use of it ... I will check my float pressures (but I think it is like 75 PSI with sled weight on them. I'll look it over & confirm my settings, but it does not seem as bad as your sounds.
jgustman
Expert
- Joined
- Feb 25, 2005
- Messages
- 202
- Age
- 50
- Location
- Cottonwood, MN
- Country
- USA
- Snowmobile
- '10 Nytro RTX
- LOCATION
- Cottonwood, MN
A confirmation of settings by others would help me figure out if I've got something wrong or if I should launch the skid through yamaha's front window. "just kidding" but it would be funny.
I just can't believe this skid doesn't give, it's got to be the rear springs with too much pressure when your just sitting on it. Like I said it just stops with about 2 1/2 inches of sag and the transfer rods havent come close to coupling yet. and that doesn't seem right at all. It just looks like yamaha's rear arm geometry with the rear springs are completely wrong for each other. It would be hard not to slap the individuals upside the head that are responsible for designing and approving this skid.
I just can't believe this skid doesn't give, it's got to be the rear springs with too much pressure when your just sitting on it. Like I said it just stops with about 2 1/2 inches of sag and the transfer rods havent come close to coupling yet. and that doesn't seem right at all. It just looks like yamaha's rear arm geometry with the rear springs are completely wrong for each other. It would be hard not to slap the individuals upside the head that are responsible for designing and approving this skid.
I changed rear springs in mine went to the lightest made by yami, still didnt help.
Jgustman I returned your pm.
smacho
Extreme
jgustman said:
If that were possible, I would like to get in the line of RTX owners who want to do the same
Perhaps Yamaha has an employee that thinks the "Apex RTX" is in some way "good" instead of a manufactured defect that customers must fix.
Earlier today I said I have adapted my riding style -- That includes: riding only on well groomed trails, standing for all bumps, & lower expectations. It is a great sled on a freshly groomed trail -- I seem to have adapted my trail selection (and riding times: weekdays on freshly groomed) according to what (& when) the groomers do.
This morning I rode a 2-mile section of trail that does not ever get groomed, and got a full dose of how bad the skid really is -- (if that was the only sort of trail I could ride, I would have dumped the sled). However, it is better than stock. The uncontrolled rebound with the stock setup was much worse than it is now. I do not expect to be happy with it until I swap out the skid.
Settings: Pioneer shock rebuild, Floats @ 50 PSI; Straps 1 hole up (shorter); Springs (coil almost loose, & torsion on soft), transfer - one turn in from red.
In hindsight, I have learned that I will not buy another new yamaha sled without setting an additional aside $5K to fix it.
smacho
Extreme
Perhaps the idea of "Out-Sourcing" might make it into the yamaha engineering department --
and they will just put some other skid on the Apex.
Imagine a factory installed M-20, or ZX2.
Who would even notice the differece in cost?
(the difference between really expensive & stupid expensive is ... having to do it twice --
having to rebuild it)
At some point they became willing to use other manufactures shocks ...
perhaps -- but I am just daydreaming now.
and they will just put some other skid on the Apex.
Imagine a factory installed M-20, or ZX2.
Who would even notice the differece in cost?
(the difference between really expensive & stupid expensive is ... having to do it twice --
having to rebuild it)
At some point they became willing to use other manufactures shocks ...
perhaps -- but I am just daydreaming now.
Ak Yammy
Expert
Wow I don't think mine is that bad after the revalve I'm sure it could be better but feels worlds better than my Yam 2-strokers that rode like a brick. The smaller stuff at low speeds can feel rough but I don't ride those kind of trails. We don't have any groomed trails here but where I ride, Tanana River (Iron Dog trail) and on the Trans Alaska Pipeline are pretty smooth. I suppose if I rode well traveled rough trails a lot I would not be happy.
Boivn ZX2 skid is supposed to be the magic carpet for those not happy with this skid.
Floats are at 65psi (must have front end up as I found out the hard way), Rear shock clicker and spring set to max. front track shock set about 5 lines stiffer from full spring length and transfer rods set halfway. Limiter in stock position.
Boivn ZX2 skid is supposed to be the magic carpet for those not happy with this skid.
Floats are at 65psi (must have front end up as I found out the hard way), Rear shock clicker and spring set to max. front track shock set about 5 lines stiffer from full spring length and transfer rods set halfway. Limiter in stock position.
smacho
Extreme
When I described the "2-Mile" never groomed trail -- it is an ugle stretch. Likely sees a few hundred sleds a week, and with the two rain/melt cycles we had, the bumps are now solid ice. It is non-stopbumps -- 2 foot & bigger.
We got ~ 1 foot of Snow yesterday and I was in it as it fell. On the fresh new stuff, the sled is a dream. Plenty of power and the suspension can eat any big hidden bump under the snow. Even with the short-track, it is good fun. This morning was good too, but as the traffic wash-boards the trail, it get annoying -- and as the big bumps form -- I point the sled for home.
I recollect my best rides as being the first one out early morning on new snow. In 4,700+ miles, I have hit a few surprises under fresh snow and have never bottomed it out, or lost any feel of control after the hit -- the suspension really can eat BIG bumps in a controlled way. (what a trade-off ???)
We got ~ 1 foot of Snow yesterday and I was in it as it fell. On the fresh new stuff, the sled is a dream. Plenty of power and the suspension can eat any big hidden bump under the snow. Even with the short-track, it is good fun. This morning was good too, but as the traffic wash-boards the trail, it get annoying -- and as the big bumps form -- I point the sled for home.
I recollect my best rides as being the first one out early morning on new snow. In 4,700+ miles, I have hit a few surprises under fresh snow and have never bottomed it out, or lost any feel of control after the hit -- the suspension really can eat BIG bumps in a controlled way. (what a trade-off ???)
ScottyD
Expert
i had both my shocks revalved on mine, now it rides great, sucks up the bumps good, it is sprung really stiff, i also had my front floats revalved also, that made a huge differance, i run them at 50psi with the addition of a 13mm swaybar to control the body roll
i have my straps pulled all the way, transfer rods set on max and springs on soft, i go 250lbs with gear and have no bottoming issues, you have to remember you cant ditch bang a tank
i have my straps pulled all the way, transfer rods set on max and springs on soft, i go 250lbs with gear and have no bottoming issues, you have to remember you cant ditch bang a tank
jgustman
Expert
- Joined
- Feb 25, 2005
- Messages
- 202
- Age
- 50
- Location
- Cottonwood, MN
- Country
- USA
- Snowmobile
- '10 Nytro RTX
- LOCATION
- Cottonwood, MN
Thanks for all the info. Got some time to test yesterday. I actually found it to ride much better yesterday when I put the transfer couplers at full transfer, It was at one line from full before and springs on the softest setting rode best vs medium. Set the clicker a few in from full soft. Also found that I was suppose to adjust the air in the fox floats with the skis off the ground before seeing it here, and set them at 50 psi. Much happier camper now. I think this is as good/soft as I can get it from the looks of it. The only problem is that there was a fresh couple inches on a fresh unrridden, but settled foot of snow last Sunday, so there wasn't much to compare as far as stutter bumps go, but seems to take the big bumps I found much better. Well there is no room too make it any softer from here other than sending the skid shocks back to Carver and asking specifically for the ReX revalve setup instead of Carver's for the rear shock. But 779cookies said he swapped rear springs with a guy who had a 2009 and they are softer....
