2005 Venture RS - won't start - relay clicks, ground from battery heats up and smokes

[srabuka]

Hi, first time posting here - looking for help. The many threads have been super useful. I'm just trying to confirm a few things before I start opening the sled up more.

As in thread title, I've got an '05 Venture RS. It was starting and running well, trails aren't open here yet but we've been using it around the yard. The other day, we started it without issue, as it was warming up, it stalled. And I've not been able to start it again. Here are some notes that hopefully will help someone smarter than me to tell me what to confirm:
- Turn the key to on - starter relay clicks, no power to instrument cluster, nothing happens - however, the negative side of the relay heats up and some smoke comes from the negative pole on the battery
- don't think it's the kill switch - when pushed in and off, I turn the key, nothing - no click in the relay / When on, I turn the key, hear the relay click. I'm assuming the kill switch is fine and the key is fine.
- Checked all fuses, they all look good.
- I've tried to jump the relay - get sparks, but doesn't do anything to the starter

3 things I'm thinking (based on the threads I've read):
- battery (it's only a year old and I've fully charged it, but haven't tried another battery yet but can do that)
- ground problem (the smoking ground leads me to this and I'm guessing it's between the relay & the starter)
- starter ( I hope not and there have been no other issues with the starter, I'd expect it to die slowly rather than all of a sudden, also, just before it quit, it started great, then stalled and wouldn't start again)

Thanks in advance for your help and for those that posted on similar topics before, thank you as well!

 

[Yamajon1]

Can you turn the engine over with the clutch? Only rotate it counter clockwise. If it turns I would suspect a starter issue. If it doesn’t you have bigger problems.

 

[hibshman25]

I just bought the same sled this past weekend from a customer. Starter worked fine when we unloaded it. Parked it in shop and have not been able to start it since. Same conditions you are having and I suspect its the starter. Have not been able to dig into it. Kinda stinks as I didn't buy it with intentions of having to put a starter in it!

 

[srabuka]

Can you turn the engine over with the clutch? Only rotate it counter clockwise. If it turns I would suspect a starter issue. If it doesn’t you have bigger problems.

thanks, i'll check that this evening. Does the smoking ground lead you to this?

 

[srabuka]

@Yamajon1 No problem turning the engine with the clutch. I've got the sled in my shop now and will hoist it up and follow the wiring to the starter

 

[wiharley02]

Quick way to see if the starter is good. Remove the airbox. Grab a good known battery and some jumper cables. Ground the good battery to the frame using black jumper cable clamp. Attach the red clamp to the starter positive lead/screw at the starter relay. I think it is the rear stud on the starter relay when you are standing on the right side (oil tank) of the sled. With the key off (or key on shouldn't matter - just be ready for it to potentially start if you have the key on), touch the other end of the red jumper cable lead to the positive of the good battery.

If it cranks over, starter is good.

Starter is a pain in the butt to get to and replace. I had a starter melt down and replaced one but that was caused by a faulty starter relay that stuck on. I've since installed 12 volt LED's on the dashes of both of my RS's, if the starter relay stays engaged after cranking, LED stays lit.

 

[hibshman25]

Just worked on mine this afternoon. Starter was locked. The magnets broke loose inside. Swapped starter out and good to go. I did it by just removing the front motor mount bolts and then using a ratchet strap hooked to a beam I raised front a motor as far as it would go before oil pan hits steering linkage. Amazingly it gives you just enough room to slip the starter out. Even managed to do it with the coolant hose still in place.

 

[srabuka]

Wow - nicely done! I'm slower but am pretty sure it's the starter, I jumped it with a fresh battery and get all kinds of sparks at the wire going to the starter. I lifted the slap and removed the oil pan and see the axis to the starter. I am going to one last test of the wire to the starter before lifting the motor out.

 

[wiharley02]

Yep sounds like a bad starter. I agree with Travis post #7, you can get the starter out without pulling the engine. I did it the same way as him. Airbox out, pretty sure the battery and battery holder need to be out, lift the front of the engine up with the front mount bolts out. I don't have an overhead hoist, I think I laid a wood 4x4 over the aluminum " upper frame hoop" and used a ratchet strap over the top of the 4X4 down to 2 "ears" on the lower front of the engine to lift it. Engine will tilt enough that you can drop the starter out the bottom of the chassis with the plastic access cover (to get tot the filter) removed. Can't remember if I had to remove the oil filter to have enough room to drop the starter out. I don't believe I broke into any coolant lines to tilt the engine. I also think I was able to leave the exhaust donut clamps in place, the flex pipes flexed enough with the engine tilt. It was around 8 years ago I did one in a 2006 RS chassis so memory is a little cloudy. Not sure if it helps having the oil tank removed to gain better access to the starter wire routing or not.

 

[srabuka]

Just worked on mine this afternoon. Starter was locked. The magnets broke loose inside. Swapped starter out and good to go. I did it by just removing the front motor mount bolts and then using a ratchet strap hooked to a beam I raised front a motor as far as it would go before oil pan hits steering linkage. Amazingly it gives you just enough room to slip the starter out. Even managed to do it with the coolant hose still in place.

did you need to remove the oil filter to get the starter out?

 

[srabuka]

Turns out it was the starter & the relay solenoid. Both replaced, all good now. Thanks to those that helped.