2011 Apex Ride Review

[Yamaha Sled Talk Blog]

Who wants power steering on a sled. Yamaha must really sell sleds to the flatlanders. I think they have achieved a Homer Simpson sled. Unreal. Who wants a sled that feels 100 lbs lighter. You need it at least a 100 lbs lighter when it's buried in 8 ft of snow. Let's see that EPS get you out of that hole.

They hear you regarding your flat lander comment, but keep in mind we're talking specifically about a trail sled, not anything else. Harp about wanting improvment for the mountains yes, but that's not what this ride was about or what this sled is about.

I enjoyed riding it. As I told Chris, the most significant thing I picked up from this sled was how light it handled the trails. Before anyone shoots off about what a sled has or doesn't, or should, or what's a waste of time and money to improve on, you have to isolate what the sled is intended for, think about the company at the drawing board with a pile of data in front of them pushing them to cover a certain market based on that data, what style of riding you want to cover, who's going to ride it, and why.

This sled, whatever it comes out being titled as is for the average trail rider who wants to sit down, turn the key and ride some significant miles in a day in a relaxed non-agressive manor without feeling fatigued at the end of the ride. I've put roughly 1500 km's on these Ontario trails since xmas and understand why these trails drive the market so much and how most of the riding I do may never see application or consideration when these companies are at the drawing board. This sled fits the bill as being one that will satisfy the needs of the majority of trail riders, not ditch bangers, not powder hounds but trail riders.

The power steering is very interesting. Without knowing how the EPS works on the quads, I assume it must be the same. There's a bit of play in the first inch or two of turning the bars as the EPS kicks into gear based on the sled's speed and likely the throttle position. It is a very smooth system. Around the corners you find yourself easing the bars to turn, the new ski's dig in well, but you don't feel it in your arms. You know how your ski's catch and the carbides dig into a corner and that translates up the forearms? With this system the effort to the bars is light and you don't get the weight back at you when turning the corner. It took me a while to trust it. Usually when you're making that corner and your arms are feeling it, you know if you turn much more, you're either going to slide out or roll the thing from the ski lift. You aren't getting that kind of feedback with EPS, thus I was hesitating with that non-feeling/feedback that you'd normally get through the bars. I was thinking about some advantages afterwards, and one of them is controlling darting. Think about the way the ATV EPS works. You slam a rut or a rock and on a non EPS system that translates in a jolt through the bars and gives your wrists a good whack. EPS takes that hit for you and you don't feel it in the bars. Now apply that to darting on the trails, there's room for play in the ski's that may just help the sled stay controled and eliminate some handle bar fighting that would otherwise be taking place. We had a lot of loose snow, so darting wasn't really a problem on our ride, but I can see where EPS would really help with it.

So the steering is light, feels nice, the rear end is much the same. The in-between track length is very interesting. You aren't slipping around like a 121 yet you've got more maneuvering on this length than a 136. Its about finding the happy medium here. Putting extra rubber on the snow for traction, to handle the torque from the engine, yet provide that corner to corner capability. Its about what little things you can do to improve the riding characteristics. It's like set up for each of you, how many people spend hours trying to find the sweet spot with the adjustments that are available to you from carbides to suspension. Yamaha has dialed in this sled to really try to find that sweet spot out of the box and get the handling improved significantly. Instead of just shock valving and weight transfer, you're talking about more significant changes that make small differences in several area's. It is a relaxed positioned sled. I found the seat nice, a little higher than the others, and good padding, felt layered. There was a comment about the surface material being a little too slippery. The rear mono suspension was decent, the usual range of adjustment. This sled is aimed at the groomed trail, for the rider who is seeking out smooth terrain, not looking to get air or do any stand-up riding.

The handle bar warmers. I want them hotter, cause I think every bar warmer should be able to melt your hands at full power (I need that up north) so I still found them to be weak. At near freezing temps outside I shouldn't have been able to have those turned on full blast. Wasn't there a day when Yamaha's hand warmers with the twist knob for temperature were capable of cooking an egg? I say stick with what works and bring that back!

Tom, can we put pictures and video up? I filmed Chris' intro to the group at the start of the ride, but can't get that online cause I don't have the equipment to do so with me here in Ontario, but I do have some a quicktime movie I could upload to youtube of footage while we were stopped around the sled near the end of the day. I'll work on uploading that at youtube.com/gofenkoa check back Friday, i'll let it upload overnight.

They wouldn't let us take the hood apart but I looked at everything I could. Problem is I don't have a comparable sled so I wasn't sure what I was looking for that would be different.

There's a new graphic package on the guage, we didn't get to see it at night but that might be where it really shines. I did spot the EPS indicator on the LCD guage. I'm not sure if it is a warning indicator to notify you that the EPS is having a problem or not, but it didn't light up while riding, it only appeared when the sled was off and the key was in the on position. I tried to see if I could turn EPS off but couldn't figure it out. I was able to tell the difference from the EPS at idle, turning the bars by hand with the sled off, then starting it and continuing to move the bars, there was some assist there.

Many of the guys liked the windscreen that was on it. What else is under that hood, who knows, but I'm curious about some major weight savings that went on as part of this sleds modifications. I think there could be something significant to report on there.

A new tail light I believe? Again I wasn't comparing it to other machines.

I guess that's all I got, it was a nice handling sled, would love to see how I felt after 300 km's in a day on it vs. anything else out there. Remember the majority of the work/fatigue on the trails is pushing on the bars and shifting your weight...the more of that which is being done for you = a lot less spent energy from the rider. There was a comment about weaker riders really benefiting from this sleds set up as well. Remember all the 'it makes you a better rider' talk that was thrown around when the rider forward platforms came out? Well, this could be another significant enough step forward to apply that statement to again.

A HUGE thank you to Chris for the invite and for setting this up. It was awesome to finally put a face to the name of the guy who I harass on a bi-weekly basis about all my riding woes up north. For those of you who have met Chris, isn't he awesome? You really can't get any better than him. Yamaha has a gem, that's for sure. For those of you who haven't met him, he's a stand up guy who's down to earth and he's one smart cookie. No doubt about it. He knows his stuff, and he's learned it all being hands on. You can't learn what he knows in a text book. Chris, I really appreciate the opportunity you provided us with, and Tyler sends his thanks as well, he's doing a lot of bragging on his damned iphone. It was an absolute pleasure and honour to ride with you and get to know you on a personal and professional basis, and I'll make sure there's more opportunity for that down the road. All of this made the long drive well worth it! You tell me when to write up that proposal to come up to YK and i'll make it a shoe in.

A huge thank you to Yamaha Canada and the folks above and beyond. I can only imagine the nervous hands at the top who see an idea like this being considered and flag it as being too risky. You don't see many, if any things like this, up close and personal, but that doesn't mean they don't have their place, and yes, they can work and pay off in the end, this one sure did. I think Chris covers leaps and bounds breaking ground from the higher ups of a manufacturer where most, if not all won't dare to go. These kind of initiatives are a sign of the times moving forward and I hope they continue. Caution is good, but not taking any risk in the first place isn't going to benefit anyone the way this ride and adventure did.

Here's to the February launch. It was a pleasure riding with all you guys!

Cheers,
YK

Geez YK, I could use a smoke after that
Seriously, it was great to meet you and I appreciate your comments and POV. I hope the rest of your Ontario adventure goes well... ride safe!
cheers cr

 

[rhoag]

We were talking here at work... about the possible different track lengths. I have been on 136 and the 144 and said I would never go back to a short track. Now if it's 128 that will be the short track version and if the speculation is correct that there will not be a 136 but a 144 version of the apex, that presents a new set of problems. I doubt a 144 version of an Apex would fit in my covered trailer, so I would have to go with the 128. My XTX just fits so I doubt an Apex 144 would. I guess I would be back on a short track.
See Yamaha marketing these teaser posts works... I am already thinking about which one I will purchase and if it will fit in my trailer! Anyone want to buy a nice XTX? LOL

 

[morrisond]

If you can get the 144 in the trailer go for it. If not don't worry too much about the 128. As the new seat places you a little farther forward and the track is a little longer, it feels like a 136 driving it.

 

[Grimm]

I still don't believe that this sled is the "Game Changer"...I think they are going to release something else on Feb. 2 and call it a Apex SE, HO, SRX, or something along those lines. Think back in 09, when they released two versions of the Venture.

...Else, why would Yamaha allow us to post pics of this one?

 

[SledFreak]

I still don't believe that this sled is the "Game Changer"...I think they are going to release something else on Feb. 2 and call it a Apex SE, HO, SRX, or something along those lines. Think back in 09, when they released two versions of the Venture.

...Else, why would Yamaha allow us to post pics of this one?

I doubdt it, this is it... But who knows, this sled is new and it just might be a good 165hp and weigh in at 500lbs? This part we will not know until Feb 2,2009. Just remember when the Apex came out, not everybody thought much of it over the RX1 as far as the motor was concerned, but it was alot different with rider forward and power was way better. This sled could be 6-8 sled lengths faster then an Apex in stock mode. I think we'll have to wait and see what the real truth comes out. I just don't understand why they are holding back the specs if it was the same as the old specs. I'm thinking alot lighter and 10-15more hp, then the Apex. I have been a little bit of critic so far, so, I'm going to reserve my comments until they officially release. We will have to wait and see.. If it is at least equal to the 1200 in weight, then I will be happy, but if it's the same, then I guess I will look to the competition. I'm not that loyal to any of these OEM's, but I am partial to Yamaha and ski-doo.

 

[tcona-AGT]

I think this is like watching a strip tease--more stuff to come

 

[vectorboy]

You think because it looks good it is game changer. That's pretty funny. A game changer would be a 180hp 430-490 lb machine with Yamahas famous reliability. It needs to be simplified and have less junk on the motor. More like there sport quads not like there utility quads. Looks has nothing to do game changing. Yamaha had a real opportunity to sell some machines this year since Doo did not release there 1200 summit this year. Yamaha could of snuck in there with a lighter machine and a little more horse and that would of been a game changer. If it really is just a revamped Apex it no game changer by any means.

 

[BADSLED]

You think because it looks good it is game changer. That's pretty funny. A game changer would be a 180hp 430-490 lb machine with Yamahas famous reliability. It needs to be simplified and have less junk on the motor. More like there sport quads not like there utility quads. Looks has nothing to do game changing. Yamaha had a real opportunity to sell some machines this year since Doo did not release there 1200 summit this year. Yamaha could of snuck in there with a lighter machine and a little more horse and that would of been a game changer. If it really is just a revamped Apex it no game changer by any means.

Revamped Apex it is - that's all!

 

[Phatboyc]

I called the power steering for the Apex the second it came out on the Grizzly. Way to be first to market again Yamaha!

More info on EPS here.
http://www.snowmobile.com/manufacturers/yamaha/yamaha-unveils-electronic-power-steering-1149.html

 

[AKrider]

I think using the term "game changer" for this sled is absurd. All it will do is provide haters with another angle to bash Yamaha.

Maybe they should specify what game it is changing? I doubt people are going to be lining up at the dealership doors because Yamaha changed the game in comfort for long distance, groomed trail riding. Seems like they are shooting for changing the game in a very narrow spectrum of the market. A part of the market few care about and no one pays attention to.

 

[newyorker_79]

I think using the term "game changer" for this sled is absurd. All it will do is provide haters with another angle to bash Yamaha.

Maybe they should specify what game it is changing? I doubt people are going to be lining up at the dealership doors because Yamaha changed the game in comfort for long distance, groomed trail riding. Seems like they are shooting for changing the game in a very narrow spectrum of the market. A part of the market few care about and no one pays attention to.

The short track trail sled market, is probably the largest sled market; or the manufacturers wouldn't have been basing all their sleds on it, since the '60s.

 

[7 skulls]

I watched the extended youtube version of the snowtrax guys talking about the new sled. One comment in particular really got me thinking:"no top heavy feeling/felt like the engine was lower."
Why no peeks at the engine bay when eps was the worst keep secret in the snowmobile universe? I think something else is at work here.
Yamaha is a motor company first and foremost.

 

[gormleyflyer2002]

EPS will be a game changer for some thats for sure, I'm not one for OEM hype but I don't see how anyone would find it to be anything but positive.......probably makes the sled feel 200 lbs lighter......we may not get everything we want but every little tweak adds up.

 

[Dano]

Nobody seems to know what exactly is in store for 2011 or what configurations will be available on the 2011 sled we rode. I for one am a big fan of the Apex's 4-holer and seating position and it would have been risky for yamaha to change that considering the target market for such sled. However, I wasn't a fan of all the small tedious growing pains on the early Apex's, which the current 2010 Apex seemed to have most covered. To take it one step farther and without compromising durability/reliability, it appears that we get to keep what we grew to love on the Apex without going through 2-3 years of modifying a totally new sled, which is followed by a couple years of fine tuning to perfection. As we all know, it seems with yamaha, it takes a few years to have issues make it from the trail to a production line change. Having that said, I believe the best 4-stroke in the industry has been improved to the next level with refinements that will comfort someone to spend their hard earned money without spending more to make it right. Other positive notes, grease fittings placed where they should be, heat exchangers bigger and on all 4 sides of track, All new front end geometry, extroverts, better fully clipped track at a better length, better skis, durable idler wheels, Power steering, more refined 4-holer, better exhaust, better seat and slightly different look. If their was anything I would change would be to change the body panels to hinge design found on older yamies since I'm not a fan of the current dezsus(sp?) fasteners.

So to be realistic, we all want 200 hp weighing in @ 500 lbs at a good "competitive price" with the ability to perform back flips and cruze the snow highways both ditch and groomed trails. Thats not going to happen in any colour. Yes I did find the new powerplant to have more jam then my Apex, but couldn't stretch its legs due to conditions. For now lets call it 5% more power. I did get a good experience when I found decent traction and had a perfect transfer when I slammed the throttle to the post. I knew right there that we either had a better gearing/clutch setup or more hp. My 136 Apex RTX would have been left behind in the same situation. I'm very curios to get the "actual specs" of this sled since Yamaha leaves us to assume and won't tell us. Guess we have to eat the whole box of cereal before we get to the prize at the bottom. Gone are the days we get to open the box from the bottom. lol Maybe we'll get more leaks before the Feb 2nd date..

So do we have a game changer? well for us current Apex owners, I would call it the "new and improved" Apex. To others that are not familiar with our beloved 4holer, I would call it a game changer to them. After-all, its more important to tally up a good year at the end of season then it is to play with spec numbers and pass judgement before a season.

just my .2c after reading many positive/negative posts on the new sled

Happy trails


Dan

 

[APEX 06]

Nobody seems to know what exactly is in store for 2011 or what configurations will be available on the 2011 sled we rode. I for one am a big fan of the Apex's 4-holer and seating position and it would have been risky for yamaha to change that considering the target market for such sled. However, I wasn't a fan of all the small tedious growing pains on the early Apex's, which the current 2010 Apex seemed to have most covered. To take it one step farther and without compromising durability/reliability, it appears that we get to keep what we grew to love on the Apex without going through 2-3 years of modifying a totally new sled, which is followed by a couple years of fine tuning to perfection. As we all know, it seems with yamaha, it takes a few years to have issues make it from the trail to a production line change. Having that said, I believe the best 4-stroke in the industry has been improved to the next level with refinements that will comfort someone to spend their hard earned money without spending more to make it right. Other positive notes, grease fittings placed where they should be, heat exchangers bigger and on all 4 sides of track, All new front end geometry, extroverts, better fully clipped track at a better length, better skis, durable idler wheels, Power steering, more refined 4-holer, better exhaust, better seat and slightly different look. If their was anything I would change would be to change the body panels to hinge design found on older yamies since I'm not a fan of the current dezsus(sp?) fasteners.

So to be realistic, we all want 200 hp weighing in @ 500 lbs at a good "competitive price" with the ability to perform back flips and cruze the snow highways both ditch and groomed trails. Thats not going to happen in any colour. Yes I did find the new powerplant to have more jam then my Apex, but couldn't stretch its legs due to conditions. For now lets call it 5% more power. I did get a good experience when I found decent traction and had a perfect transfer when I slammed the throttle to the post. I knew right there that we either had a better gearing/clutch setup or more hp. My 136 Apex RTX would have been left behind in the same situation. I'm very curios to get the "actual specs" of this sled since Yamaha leaves us to assume and won't tell us. Guess we have to eat the whole box of cereal before we get to the prize at the bottom. Gone are the days we get to open the box from the bottom. lol Maybe we'll get more leaks before the Feb 2nd date..

So do we have a game changer? well for us current Apex owners, I would call it the "new and improved" Apex. To others that are not familiar with our beloved 4holer, I would call it a game changer to them.

Happy trails


Dan