vectorboy
Extreme
Who wants power steering on a sled. Yamaha must really sell sleds to the flatlanders. I think they have achieved a Homer Simpson sled. Unreal. Who wants a sled that feels 100 lbs lighter. You need it at least a 100 lbs lighter when it's buried in 8 ft of snow. Let's see that EPS get you out of that hole.
yamisxr
Newbie
- Joined
- Jan 14, 2010
- Messages
- 7
My impressions...
I posted my thoughts on Ontario Conditions Forum before heading over here to see this thread.
Great ride guys! Thanks for a fun day!
Here's the link...
http://forum.ontarioconditions.com/phpB ... f=4&t=6215
(pic included!)
I posted my thoughts on Ontario Conditions Forum before heading over here to see this thread.
Great ride guys! Thanks for a fun day!
Here's the link...
http://forum.ontarioconditions.com/phpB ... f=4&t=6215
(pic included!)
vectorboy said:Who wants power steering on a sled. quote]
I remember when reverse was first introduced to snowmobiles.The same statement was made then about reverse--but now?
Grimm
TY 4 Stroke God
I'd love to have power steering...ever try to steer an FX Nytro with C&As on?
riverrat
Expert
Nice report guys, sled sounds expensive doesnt it? Cant wait to try it.
Ported Hornet
Expert
Very interesting. I am ready for a update
yzman
Expert
http://cs.amsnow.com/snocs/blogs/news/2 ... nd-of.aspx Some good info . Looks might not have changed , but its everything we love about the apex , but now handles like a dream , and who knows maybe more Horsepower . looks like they have fixed the things most people complaned about the apex , handling and control . If all is true , yamaha has done what everyone told them too
Yamforlife
Veteran
yzman said:
Agreed - sounding Good!!!!
mud99
Expert
Have you taken a look at the current apex steering? Power steering using hydraulic lines would simplify things a lot, the steering linkage on the apex is a disaster full of slop and extra weight, and a dozen different joints which interfere with access to the motor.
Yamaha isn't stupid, they know this, and i'm willing to bet the power steering setup is lighter than the mechanical steering.
Mark
Yamaha isn't stupid, they know this, and i'm willing to bet the power steering setup is lighter than the mechanical steering.
Mark
vectorboy said:
Sasquatch
Lifetime Member
- Joined
- Apr 17, 2004
- Messages
- 3,699
- Location
- North Western Ontario
- Website
- www.dptc.com
- Country
- Canada
- Snowmobile
- Yamaha's
Grimm said:
Yep love my Simmons but they sure can tire the arms after a 300 mile ride. Give me power steering and lets see if we can make it backwards compatible.
Fullback
Expert
I wonder what the chances are of the aftermarket or Yamaha offering something similar for say an existing Apex or RX1...? I really know very little about the ATV set up.
Dano
TY 4 Stroke Master
Fullback said:
The EPS box seems to be located right in the front of sled where their is spare room for the optional compartment bag. It was hard to see through the small screen, but I did see something square and different.
KevinS
Expert
RTX Meirda
TY 4 Stroke Master
I never saw the need for "power stgeering", but after riding the new sled, I suggest everyone should try it before passing judgement. What a great update. If patents allow, I think every premium sled will have this feature in the future.
Yellowknife
TY 4 Stroke Master
vectorboy said:
They hear you regarding your flat lander comment, but keep in mind we're talking specifically about a trail sled, not anything else. Harp about wanting improvment for the mountains yes, but that's not what this ride was about or what this sled is about.
I enjoyed riding it. As I told Chris, the most significant thing I picked up from this sled was how light it handled the trails. Before anyone shoots off about what a sled has or doesn't, or should, or what's a waste of time and money to improve on, you have to isolate what the sled is intended for, think about the company at the drawing board with a pile of data in front of them pushing them to cover a certain market based on that data, what style of riding you want to cover, who's going to ride it, and why.
This sled, whatever it comes out being titled as is for the average trail rider who wants to sit down, turn the key and ride some significant miles in a day in a relaxed non-agressive manor without feeling fatigued at the end of the ride. I've put roughly 1500 km's on these Ontario trails since xmas and understand why these trails drive the market so much and how most of the riding I do may never see application or consideration when these companies are at the drawing board. This sled fits the bill as being one that will satisfy the needs of the majority of trail riders, not ditch bangers, not powder hounds but trail riders.
The power steering is very interesting. Without knowing how the EPS works on the quads, I assume it must be the same. There's a bit of play in the first inch or two of turning the bars as the EPS kicks into gear based on the sled's speed and likely the throttle position. It is a very smooth system. Around the corners you find yourself easing the bars to turn, the new ski's dig in well, but you don't feel it in your arms. You know how your ski's catch and the carbides dig into a corner and that translates up the forearms? With this system the effort to the bars is light and you don't get the weight back at you when turning the corner. It took me a while to trust it. Usually when you're making that corner and your arms are feeling it, you know if you turn much more, you're either going to slide out or roll the thing from the ski lift. You aren't getting that kind of feedback with EPS, thus I was hesitating with that non-feeling/feedback that you'd normally get through the bars. I was thinking about some advantages afterwards, and one of them is controlling darting. Think about the way the ATV EPS works. You slam a rut or a rock and on a non EPS system that translates in a jolt through the bars and gives your wrists a good whack. EPS takes that hit for you and you don't feel it in the bars. Now apply that to darting on the trails, there's room for play in the ski's that may just help the sled stay controled and eliminate some handle bar fighting that would otherwise be taking place. We had a lot of loose snow, so darting wasn't really a problem on our ride, but I can see where EPS would really help with it.
So the steering is light, feels nice, the rear end is much the same. The in-between track length is very interesting. You aren't slipping around like a 121 yet you've got more maneuvering on this length than a 136. Its about finding the happy medium here. Putting extra rubber on the snow for traction, to handle the torque from the engine, yet provide that corner to corner capability. Its about what little things you can do to improve the riding characteristics. It's like set up for each of you, how many people spend hours trying to find the sweet spot with the adjustments that are available to you from carbides to suspension. Yamaha has dialed in this sled to really try to find that sweet spot out of the box and get the handling improved significantly. Instead of just shock valving and weight transfer, you're talking about more significant changes that make small differences in several area's. It is a relaxed positioned sled. I found the seat nice, a little higher than the others, and good padding, felt layered. There was a comment about the surface material being a little too slippery. The rear mono suspension was decent, the usual range of adjustment. This sled is aimed at the groomed trail, for the rider who is seeking out smooth terrain, not looking to get air or do any stand-up riding.
The handle bar warmers. I want them hotter, cause I think every bar warmer should be able to melt your hands at full power (I need that up north) so I still found them to be weak. At near freezing temps outside I shouldn't have been able to have those turned on full blast. Wasn't there a day when Yamaha's hand warmers with the twist knob for temperature were capable of cooking an egg? I say stick with what works and bring that back!
Tom, can we put pictures and video up? I filmed Chris' intro to the group at the start of the ride, but can't get that online cause I don't have the equipment to do so with me here in Ontario, but I do have some a quicktime movie I could upload to youtube of footage while we were stopped around the sled near the end of the day. I'll work on uploading that at youtube.com/gofenkoa check back Friday, i'll let it upload overnight.
They wouldn't let us take the hood apart but I looked at everything I could. Problem is I don't have a comparable sled so I wasn't sure what I was looking for that would be different.
There's a new graphic package on the guage, we didn't get to see it at night but that might be where it really shines. I did spot the EPS indicator on the LCD guage. I'm not sure if it is a warning indicator to notify you that the EPS is having a problem or not, but it didn't light up while riding, it only appeared when the sled was off and the key was in the on position. I tried to see if I could turn EPS off but couldn't figure it out. I was able to tell the difference from the EPS at idle, turning the bars by hand with the sled off, then starting it and continuing to move the bars, there was some assist there.
Many of the guys liked the windscreen that was on it. What else is under that hood, who knows, but I'm curious about some major weight savings that went on as part of this sleds modifications. I think there could be something significant to report on there.
A new tail light I believe? Again I wasn't comparing it to other machines.
I guess that's all I got, it was a nice handling sled, would love to see how I felt after 300 km's in a day on it vs. anything else out there. Remember the majority of the work/fatigue on the trails is pushing on the bars and shifting your weight...the more of that which is being done for you = a lot less spent energy from the rider. There was a comment about weaker riders really benefiting from this sleds set up as well. Remember all the 'it makes you a better rider' talk that was thrown around when the rider forward platforms came out? Well, this could be another significant enough step forward to apply that statement to again.
A HUGE thank you to Chris for the invite and for setting this up. It was awesome to finally put a face to the name of the guy who I harass on a bi-weekly basis about all my riding woes up north. For those of you who have met Chris, isn't he awesome? You really can't get any better than him. Yamaha has a gem, that's for sure. For those of you who haven't met him, he's a stand up guy who's down to earth and he's one smart cookie. No doubt about it. He knows his stuff, and he's learned it all being hands on. You can't learn what he knows in a text book. Chris, I really appreciate the opportunity you provided us with, and Tyler sends his thanks as well, he's doing a lot of bragging on his damned iphone. It was an absolute pleasure and honour to ride with you and get to know you on a personal and professional basis, and I'll make sure there's more opportunity for that down the road. All of this made the long drive well worth it! You tell me when to write up that proposal to come up to YK and i'll make it a shoe in.
A huge thank you to Yamaha Canada and the folks above and beyond. I can only imagine the nervous hands at the top who see an idea like this being considered and flag it as being too risky. You don't see many, if any things like this, up close and personal, but that doesn't mean they don't have their place, and yes, they can work and pay off in the end, this one sure did. I think Chris covers leaps and bounds breaking ground from the higher ups of a manufacturer where most, if not all won't dare to go. These kind of initiatives are a sign of the times moving forward and I hope they continue. Caution is good, but not taking any risk in the first place isn't going to benefit anyone the way this ride and adventure did.
Here's to the February launch. It was a pleasure riding with all you guys!
Cheers,
YK
Similar threads
