yamahahaapex
TY 4 Stroke Master
. 2stroke s.d.i. For arctic cat. Cat dealer said he was notified by rep 2 weeks ago an announcement was coming with Yamaha buying 51 percent of ac. Big rumour there but the s.d.i sounds like a sure thingtapp1 said:Saw this on Facebook...>Take it for what its worth:
https://www.facebook.com/pages/TheRider ... 7184179052
Lots of rumors starting to bubble up the closer we get to the release date. This CR article gives the pros and cons to building in the USA.
http://snowmobiles.yamahablogs.ca/2011/ ... n-my-mind/
The cost of building everything in Japan is much more expensive than it used to be with the current exchange rate. The Rhino, their utility quads and sleds haven't seen major updates for years. Who knows, maybe there is some truth to it?
http://snowmobiles.yamahablogs.ca/2011/ ... n-my-mind/
The cost of building everything in Japan is much more expensive than it used to be with the current exchange rate. The Rhino, their utility quads and sleds haven't seen major updates for years. Who knows, maybe there is some truth to it?
yamajammer76
TY 4 Stroke Junkie
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yamahahaapex said:. 2stroke s.d.i. For arctic cat. Cat dealer said he was notified by rep 2 weeks ago an announcement was coming with Yamaha buying 51 percent of ac. Big rumour there but the s.d.i sounds like a sure thingtapp1 said:Saw this on Facebook...>Take it for what its worth:
https://www.facebook.com/pages/TheRider ... 7184179052
Actually the 51% rumor is pretty believable considering Arctic Cats current position in the market. Remember that company lives, breaths and dies on only a couple of product segments and many feel that long term the sled market will continue to shrink.
Now if I were BRP and Polaris I would be afraid of Cat and Yamaha under the control of Yamaha Motor Corp. Cat's largest shareholder for many years was Suzuki, but they could have cared less about the actual products.
My Dad says this will never happen and AC is going to phase out Suzuki engines and engineer and building everything themselves, but I feel they know they are at a serious disadvantage to BRP and Polaris. Do they have the resources to keep up with those much larger corporations who own a huge majority of the market? Honestly I don't think they do.
If Cat is going to survive long term in the "new" snowmobile market they are going to need to be backed by a corporation with size that actually cares about snowmobiles and ATV's. Who else is there that meets that criteria?
This might all be a rumor, but I have no issue with Yamaha taking control of AC because it will only improve things for both brands. I do have an issue with Yamaha just re-badging the current AC's without any sort of corporate oversight.
A merged Yamaha-Arctic Cat operation could be just the ticket to knock the big 2 down a couple notches.
Sg3540
Veteran
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If its on Facebook it must be true, did Yamaha and cat "friend" each other yet? Did Yamaha update its status to "frisky"? Did cat update to "Cupid got me seeing' blue". Sorry tapp, not a shot on you, I just dont like Facebook.
couch
Expert
Sg3540 said:
Best post yet after 52 pgs.
Paraclete
Expert
I agree that was just hilarious.
ViperTurboPete
TY 4 Stroke Master
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2022 Expedition Extreme 850
I remember it like yesterday when Cat went out of business in the 80's. This is a way for them to avoid that once again.
extreman1
Extreme
cat and yamaha
Arctic cat will have Yamaha power plants for 2014, Apex will be gone with a all new big bump sled in its place, Now you have all been warned!!!!! LOL Phazer is revamped as well
Arctic cat will have Yamaha power plants for 2014, Apex will be gone with a all new big bump sled in its place, Now you have all been warned!!!!! LOL Phazer is revamped as well
Did anybody see the money Cat has made lately? I don't think there hurting as implied.
yamajammer76
TY 4 Stroke Junkie
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Re: cat and yamaha
Well to be fair Arctic Cat Inc. is actually doing ok financially at the present time. I believe however they are at the point where their size is starting to really limit them as BRP and Polaris grow larger and larger. Arctic Cat had about $600 million in sales last year compared to Polaris $2.7 billion. That is a HUGE size difference in the business world. Snowmobiles and ATVs used to be simple products with low development costs, but that is starting to change. If you start to figure in high tech engine development as well you start to see how difficult it will be for AC to engineer and implement an entire line of high tech engines without any outside help. Sure I know they build some of their own ATV engines, but quite frankly they are a Briggs and Stratton compared to an engine like what is in the Yamaha 4 stroke sleds. I would be shocked if they could maintain a high level of profitability by going alone into the future.
Your right. As I have said before AC is not "hurting" and is running a profitable business, however they are basically an "American Motors" (if anyone remembers them) trying to compete with a "Ford" and "General Motors". The margin is small enough to be wiped out by a bad winter or two or a large ATV lawsuit. Being small in a big business market has it's advantages, but it also makes shareholders nervous without someone bigger backing them up.
If your Arctic Cat and you have the chance to have a company like Yamaha Motor Corporation backing you with engineering and financial resources do you say no considering your company is several times smaller then it's competitors?
Back in the early 90's Polaris attempted a hostile take-over of Arctic Cat. Because of this Arctic Cat sold a majority of their shares to Suzuki for protection against these things. Suzuki has been struggling lately and has sold all of their shares back. Arctic Cat can go alone, but unless they can grow at a very high rate they could be targeted like this again. Suzuki was a poor fit anyhow. They cared little about the ATV market and even less about the sled market. Yamaha is a MUCH better fit in these product areas. Now none of this may happen and AC might go on alone as the little company in the brown Behlen building hoping that a much larger competitor doesn't do a 2 AM boardroom takeover sometime in the future, but the rumors do have merit if you look at what happened in the past. The business world is completely different then what we think it should look like.
All of that is possible, but if the Apex is being replaced by what sounds like an in-house design where does that leave the Nytro? Is it continuing on (possibly with a facelift) or is the Nytro going to be the YamaCat?
All I can say is some of the rumors are SO BIG on both the Yamaha and AC side that I don't know what I can and can't believe. I also can't figure out how they have kept a lid on all of this if it is actually true. Part of me is ready for shock and the other part of me is ready for a new model or two and BNGs on the remaining line-up.
RX1MPete said:
Well to be fair Arctic Cat Inc. is actually doing ok financially at the present time. I believe however they are at the point where their size is starting to really limit them as BRP and Polaris grow larger and larger. Arctic Cat had about $600 million in sales last year compared to Polaris $2.7 billion. That is a HUGE size difference in the business world. Snowmobiles and ATVs used to be simple products with low development costs, but that is starting to change. If you start to figure in high tech engine development as well you start to see how difficult it will be for AC to engineer and implement an entire line of high tech engines without any outside help. Sure I know they build some of their own ATV engines, but quite frankly they are a Briggs and Stratton compared to an engine like what is in the Yamaha 4 stroke sleds. I would be shocked if they could maintain a high level of profitability by going alone into the future.
bottlerocket said:
Your right. As I have said before AC is not "hurting" and is running a profitable business, however they are basically an "American Motors" (if anyone remembers them) trying to compete with a "Ford" and "General Motors". The margin is small enough to be wiped out by a bad winter or two or a large ATV lawsuit. Being small in a big business market has it's advantages, but it also makes shareholders nervous without someone bigger backing them up.
If your Arctic Cat and you have the chance to have a company like Yamaha Motor Corporation backing you with engineering and financial resources do you say no considering your company is several times smaller then it's competitors?
Back in the early 90's Polaris attempted a hostile take-over of Arctic Cat. Because of this Arctic Cat sold a majority of their shares to Suzuki for protection against these things. Suzuki has been struggling lately and has sold all of their shares back. Arctic Cat can go alone, but unless they can grow at a very high rate they could be targeted like this again. Suzuki was a poor fit anyhow. They cared little about the ATV market and even less about the sled market. Yamaha is a MUCH better fit in these product areas. Now none of this may happen and AC might go on alone as the little company in the brown Behlen building hoping that a much larger competitor doesn't do a 2 AM boardroom takeover sometime in the future, but the rumors do have merit if you look at what happened in the past. The business world is completely different then what we think it should look like.
extreman1 said:
All of that is possible, but if the Apex is being replaced by what sounds like an in-house design where does that leave the Nytro? Is it continuing on (possibly with a facelift) or is the Nytro going to be the YamaCat?
All I can say is some of the rumors are SO BIG on both the Yamaha and AC side that I don't know what I can and can't believe. I also can't figure out how they have kept a lid on all of this if it is actually true. Part of me is ready for shock and the other part of me is ready for a new model or two and BNGs on the remaining line-up.
XIpyretta
Extreme
Arctic cat is a publicly traded company, information on stock bought by other companies is public information corect? I looked around and didn't find anything but that doesn't mean they didn't sell technologies to each other.
XIpyretta
Extreme
Arctic cat is a publicly traded company, information on stock bought by other companies is public information corect? I looked around and didn't find anything but that doesn't mean they didn't sell technologies to each other.
raginyamaha
TY 4 Stroke Master
Thats funny...couch said:
YamConvert
Newbie
This is an interesting excerpt from their Jan 24th earnings conference call. Obviously, pretty vague, but take from it what you will:
Scott Hamann - KeyBanc Capital Markets
Okay. And I know that you said you are going to have (4 skis of the) Wildcat out in fiscal ‘13 and you did accomplished that, now as we look into fiscal ’14, I mean is it safe to assume that there will be additional introductions into the side-by-side category?
Claude Jordan - Chairman and Chief Executive Officer
I think it will be very safe to assume that. Going forward, we have talked about this product development. We continue to invest in that you saw during my comments we said year-to-date our R&D is up 15%, there is a lot of opportunities we are just scratching the surface in terms of different directions we can go. So, I think you are going to see across the board, where we are going to continue to go hit and rollout new products not just on the ATV and the side-by-side, but also on the snowmobile side as well. And we are extremely excited about bringing the engines in house and giving us a little bit more flexibility in terms of direction we are going to go on the snow side.
Scott Hamann - KeyBanc Capital Markets
Okay. And I know that you said you are going to have (4 skis of the) Wildcat out in fiscal ‘13 and you did accomplished that, now as we look into fiscal ’14, I mean is it safe to assume that there will be additional introductions into the side-by-side category?
Claude Jordan - Chairman and Chief Executive Officer
I think it will be very safe to assume that. Going forward, we have talked about this product development. We continue to invest in that you saw during my comments we said year-to-date our R&D is up 15%, there is a lot of opportunities we are just scratching the surface in terms of different directions we can go. So, I think you are going to see across the board, where we are going to continue to go hit and rollout new products not just on the ATV and the side-by-side, but also on the snowmobile side as well. And we are extremely excited about bringing the engines in house and giving us a little bit more flexibility in terms of direction we are going to go on the snow side.
whitedust1
TY 4 Stroke God
Why in the world would YMC want to own 51% of AC? AC has nothing but USA location which Yam could do on their own if wanted to do so. I could just see heads banging engineering brick wall Japs & AC engineers so different never meld together. YMC would very much like to supply any & all engines for all AC products but that is a simple OEM relationship. 
