Another subframe bites the dust.....need help!!!!!

[stopdropanroll]

Well this weekend I was parked on the side of the trail taking a breather and we were looking at my front susp. and noticed the spindles had different degrees of rake, one side was more vertical then the other I figured maybe had to do with how I was parked but when looking at it on my garage floor there is deffinitly a difference, the shock clearance is different too but its very minnor, I guess I should have messured when it was new, but needless to say its not nearly as bad as some but my buddies 08/09 RTX (yami demo w/09 update) has two bent a-arms from a LIGHT kiss of a tree. Is it a issue.......YES is it tolerable.......depends on the sled.....mine is not bad enough to mess with it but I will keep a close watch.

 

[Crewchief47]

it's not just the subframe that's weak - the a-arms are too. when I put in my new 09 front clip the shocks were still touching the upper a-arms. I never hit anything to tweak the a-arms, I DID hook a carbide on some train tracks at 5mph to cause major damage to the clip.

As a point of interest, ask MrSled about 5mph rail crossings. His twisted the poop out of the right front of his..........Apex. Twisted the whole spindle, the splines were curved on the shaft, and took out one or both a-arms(I think). Would never have believed it had I not seen it with my own two eyes.

 

[theCATman]

it's not just the subframe that's weak - the a-arms are too. when I put in my new 09 front clip the shocks were still touching the upper a-arms. I never hit anything to tweak the a-arms, I DID hook a carbide on some train tracks at 5mph to cause major damage to the clip.

is it a pisspoor design - yes
are we a bunch of whiney buggers - yes
is yamaha taking care of SOME of us - yes
will I continue to buy yamaha products in the future - not sure

a better way to breakdown the nytro numbers is to do a poll like arteeex. but we need to know the number of people that were actually polled.

you know - like 40 people that were polled on TY had a busted azz front clip out of 250 people surveyed.

that # would probably be a good estimate as to the true # of casualties out there. not some lame azz 40000 sleds produced, 40 outta 3000 = 1% bent clip mumbo jumbo. do you know for a fact yamaha owns 25% of the sled market? I'd like to see the actual FACTS!

even some of the naysayers from last year are singing a different tune when it happens to them - Catman - you will be no different - trust me.

I'm not argueing any bent parts. What I do argue & question though is the true number of bent frames, arms, spindles, etc. that really did bend from no impact at all. This will never be proven. Too much internet hype & liars out there.

You call my numbers as being BS, believe what you want. I never said Yamaha has 25% of the total market. So now you're pulling numbers outa thin air.

I said Yamaha produces 40,000 sleds worldwide. They make the Apex,Vector, Nytro, Phazer & Venture. Each in special versions, but all model names sharing the same chassis. Dividing 40,000 by 5 gives 8,000 of each model produced. Obviously, it isn't divided this way due to sales numbers dictating which models to produce more of. But non the less, 8-10,000 of each model is a close estimate.

Assuming 1,000 bent frames worldwide (and that's being generous) outa 8,000 FX Nytros produced is 13% Your quoting of TY's poll of 40 outa 250 is 16%, not very far off now are we?!?!

Still wanna call my numbers bullshit? I'm not calling yours/TY numbers bullshit. They are both actually very close.

All I'm saying is at such a small percentage it's no wonder Yamaha won't aknowledge a possible problem. And when the majority are from some form of abuse or impact, why should they.

It strikes me as odd that one guy can have 3-4,000 miles on an FX with no damage and the next guy have 300 miles with bent parts & then claim "I never hit anything" I smell a rat!! Or just a freakin' liar.

 

[BLUEBALLER]

total worldwide sales for 2008 = 163753. You state Yamaha sold 40000 annually. Guess what 25% of 163753 is? ready? 40938.25. so maybe I was off a little in my grade 5 math. sorry. it's just under 25%. I'll let you do the math.

not sure where you pulled the 40000 in sales from - I've always looked for that number & could never find it.

the 40 outta 250 number I did pull outta my azz. what if it was 40 out of 100 people polled. then it would be 40%. feel any worse yet?

I/you/we have no clue as to the number of people affected by this. So maybe we should stop assuming. you worry about yours, & I'll worry about mine.

 

[triumph54]

Just picked mine up this week.. Was not on back order, had it within a week, central NY. Make sure you get the updated superceded part, with the plates welded in. I believe it was 8GL-24910-10-00, going on memory there.. Good luck.

 

[arteeex]

I'm not argueing any bent parts. What I do argue & question though is the true number of bent frames, arms, spindles, etc. that really did bend from no impact at all. This will never be proven. Too much internet hype & liars out there.

It strikes me as odd that one guy can have 3-4,000 miles on an FX with no damage and the next guy have 300 miles with bent parts & then claim "I never hit anything" I smell a rat!! Or just a freakin' liar.

Two things; you seem to feel very strongly, even angry, about this issue and, you're equating distance with the potential for a bent sub-frame.

The percentages really don't matter to anyone with a bent a sub-frame as statistics only apply to populations, not individuals. Secondly, when I struck something with my sled and bent the sub-frame it happened at a point in space, no appreciable distance was involved. The mileage on the odometer didn’t matter.

From my experience, the problem may be that there is very little feedback to the rider in these low speed impacts. I barely felt the hit that bent my sled, so it's not hard for me to believe that others may have been completely oblivious to a seemingly small hit that took out a sub-frame. I too don't believe that this damage happens without an input force, physics doesn't work this way.

Another point; your assertions would seem to imply the sub-frame is as strong as it should be can't be definitively proven, even with our examples or your rhetoric. It is entirely possible that, despite the success you’re having, the sub-frame in your sled is still not as strong as it could be or should be, particularly in torsion from a lateral load. Some where in the design process someone made a decision about maximum expected loads and appropriate safety factors to apply. What if these assumptions were off by 10 or 20 percent? I can tell you such assumptions are generally lucky to be with 50%. And, I would suggest the gussets added to the new sub-frame are recognition of this point.

This is just my 33-cents on the subject.

 

[SOL]

Not looking to add any fuel to any fire, but being a new sled owner and buying a Nytro and spending a nice chunk of change I am totally shocked to hear all the problems on this site, it certainly seems more people complaining than happy.

The truth of the matter weather it is 10% or 13% or 16% the alarming rate of subframe failures and bent arms etc is completely ridiculous. While some members feel a 13% or whatever failure rate is ok, that is honestly a joke. Any other industry that had a rate of failure in the double digit percentage would pull that product line or address the issues and keep the customers happy. I personally think it is amazing Yamaha is doing nothing about it, they have this forum as a testing tool and for feedback, but in my views they are turning a blind eye to the problem?

The other issue I have is why or how do some members get the bent items covered under warranty and some are paying for it? Why or what does Yamaha do to determine who gets covered?

Again I am not trying to bash since I just bought a brand new Nytro but I am worried. My friend has a brand new XTX and brushed the side of a tree at 1 mph and it completely bent the front of his sled. It was a shame to hear Yamaha would not offer anything, not even a discount on the new bulkhead or whatever.

In closing if Yamaha looks at the number of people complaining,and they made major changes from 08 to 09 it will not be long before Yamaha loses alot of repeat business. I love my sled but I hate the fact I am so paranoid to ride it. For 13k these problems should not be happening as often as being reported.

If the true number is 15%, does Yamaha honestly think losing 15% of repeat customers is good for business? While replacing the parts under warranty will cost Yamaha some money, losing 15% plus of repeat customers will cost a lot more. How can any brand in any industry survive long term if 15% of customers are angry and will never buy that brand again? Another way to look at things If they (Yamaha) sell 40 thousands selds or whatever and moving forward 15% of those customers don't buy another yamaha sled and move to something else, it is a double whammy. Yamaha loses customers to other brands and then 6000 plus sales, equals a lot more loot than replacing products under current warranty.

Sorry for the long reply and hopefully nobody is offended. Sorry for bad spelling/grammar typing on the fly

 

[Snowman07]

Well my Nytro is in my garage tonight. I wanna thank Sunnyside Cycle in Alexander, New York for getting my sled back to me fast. They really took the time to hussle to have me riding by tonight. Great job Matt and Eric.

Just so you guys know. Any wrecked subframes are being replaced with the 2009 subframes. Eric said he was amazed how beefed up the new subframes are.