Apex Turbo cuts out

[Bicycle_Mafia]

I've got an 06 apex motor in my rzr 800s. It's never ran right like it should. I've replaced almost every mechanical/eletrical part on the engine trying to find a fix. It cuts out if I put any kind of strain on the engine. I feel like the problem is electrical. I've got good fuel pressure. It doesn't backfire but makes a strange gurgling sound. I recently turbo'd it. It ran much better with the turbo but still cut out bad. Then I added the pc5 ignition module and advanced the timing 15 degrees and it woke the motor up big time. But still cuts out. It will completely fall on its face during WOT, cut out again, and then pick back up. I'm so lost on this. I live in arkansas and there's not a soul here who knows about this motor. I've got videos attached of it acting up. Any suggestions on fixing?? Thanks

 

[maim]

i am no expert but i think you might need to put an o2 sensor and gauge on it to tune the fuel better as it sounds like it might be running rich and washing out the spark. the stock ecu was tuned to run in 30 degrees to -40. above those temps it tends to run rich and foul plugs.

 

[Bicycle_Mafia]

Thanks for the input. That makes a little sense. I've got the pc5 autotuner on it. It's always had me take away fuel. I just want to make sure my timing is right before I start taking away fuel. When i drove it in the videos above, the fumes from unburnt fuel were overwhelming. Would it really wash the spark away like you said?

 

[maim]

yes it can. did it to myself on a motorcycle that we thought needed a crap load of fuel when we hopped it up. turned out how it was modded, i could almost have left it stock according to an o2 i used.

 

[Bicycle_Mafia]

Okay I'm going to mess with it this afternoon or tomorrow. Do you think it's normal to have to advance timing to get it to run better?

 

[mbarryracing]

Rule #1 when turbo charging... install a boost gauge.
Rule #2 when turbo charging... install an AFR gauge.
Rule #3 when turbo charging... follow rules #1 & 2

 

[mbarryracing]

DO NOT Mess with the timing from stock. You are asking for trouble. It should run completely fine with stock timing, that is NOT your cut-out issue.

What real RPM is it cutting out at? Just checking that it's not just a rev limiter. I'm sure the tach is a WAY slower to response than the actual RPM so if the RPM is spiking and the ECU is reacting by completely shutting off the ignition / rev limiting no amount of timing adjustment will cure that. It will stay cut out until it drops below an RPM threshold, so can seem like an eternity.

When we turbo charge the YXZ1000 it makes so much power and rev's so quick that it hits the rev limiter way before the tach catches up so it's very misleading.

You should be clutching that to shift and hold 10,300 RPM. Doesn't sound like that in the videos but I can't read the tach. From the sound you really need to load the engine down more with your clutching or you have massive belt slip.

 

[Macheater]

If you are running the stock 06 ECU and your adding 15 deg of timing, that is WAY too much. Especially on a turbo engine. The Apex engine does like timing, but not that much.

 

[Bicycle_Mafia]

Okay I see. It seems to mess up mostly about 8k rpm and higher. I have a boost gauge. I'm running 10lb boost. I have an afr gauge only if I hook the laptop up to it. This problem occured even before I turbod it. I rebuilt the motor with low compression pistons and triple checked the timing on the cams and set all valves to spec. I will say that when I drove it for 2 mins, it would get the turbo insanely hot. When I advanced the timing, the heat immediately went away.

Things I've replaced: tps, fuel rail, injectors, stator, head, entire wire harness, ecu, fuel pump, fuel regulator, map sensor.

I've got another video of it below with no fuel adjusted and no timing adjusted. It's not great. I will take a better video this weekend of the gauges and what not.

 

[Macheater]

I used to have a Yamaha Blaster (yes I know, totally different machine) it would cut out occasionally at high rpm. I traced the problem to a bad spark plug cap.
Is the problem as regular as clockwork or is it intermittent?

 

[Bicycle_Mafia]

Its a very regular problem. It's not consistent as far as what rpm it does it at exactly. I've had 3 different sets of plugs put in and nothing changed. Forgot to mention I replaced the coil packs also.

 

[Macheater]

Ok so clearly this is a non-stock engine installation. And you say this problem occurred before the turbo installation. I'm going to assume you are still using the stock ecu. And you mentioned that you have replaced several sensors. The problem in your case is that you may not have satisfied ALL of the sensor inputs to the ECU. Examples might be speed sensor, tors, etc. The modern ECU's are very touchy in that respect. If there is a signal from a sensor that it expects to see and doesn't it can do really weird things. If you had the capability of plugging in the stock gauge cluster, I'm betting that you would see multiple trouble codes flashing. When I dyno'd my Apex the other day, the ECU did not see the speed sensor signal and acted all weird when I tried to pull it off the dyno. It had 2 codes flashing. Just something to think about.

 

[Bicycle_Mafia]

I have the apex cluster and the only code it shows is the speedometer sensor. I believe its code 42

 

[mbarryracing]

Ok so clearly this is a non-stock engine installation. And you say this problem occurred before the turbo installation. I'm going to assume you are still using the stock ecu. And you mentioned that you have replaced several sensors. The problem in your case is that you may not have satisfied ALL of the sensor inputs to the ECU. Examples might be speed sensor, tors, etc. The modern ECU's are very touchy in that respect. If there is a signal from a sensor that it expects to see and doesn't it can do really weird things. If you had the capability of plugging in the stock gauge cluster, I'm betting that you would see multiple trouble codes flashing. When I dyno'd my Apex the other day, the ECU did not see the speed sensor signal and acted all weird when I tried to pull it off the dyno. It had 2 codes flashing. Just something to think about.

X2, come to think of it when I also had dyno'ed my Apex when it had the stock ECU we also had to loosen the speedo gear bolt so the gear would rotate under vibration during the run so the ECU would see a signal and it would run clean.

 

[Bicycle_Mafia]

So you guys believe the speedo sensor not being hooked up is making it act like it is?