APEX XTX OR APEX

[Anonymous]

Yamaha claims that the new Apex XTX will corner like a 121. I realize the track has a 6 degree tip up. But even on snow packed trails I think the rear portion of the track will still be connected to the trail. The XTX may ride better and have better floatation but I dont see it handling or cornering anywhere near the shorter 128'S.

 

[bottlerocket]

A sled that heavy will not be to quick handling no matter what track length. That being said i would take the XTX for the ride and bigger foot print to put the power to the ground. I had a Attak and loved the sled and would still have it if I wasnt offered good money for it. The 128 will be a nice length for some of the bumps but i still think the 144 is your best bet IMO.

 

[welterracer]

XTX.. trust me that last 7 inches of track doesnt touch the ground.. Been there seen it..

 

[ecopter]

Simple physics determines the facts that something longer take more effort to turn. I had an Attak and downsized the track length to a new SE. And the Attak was only 136". Can't imagine trying to wrestle a 144" through normal trails.

Yea, the ride would probably be better since it has more track length and suspension travel, but a caddy rides better than a Porsche too. I can tell you what I'd rather be driving on the tight twisties.

The tipped up rail is a good invention; but I personally think it's more of a gimmick to appeal to a broader market of rider that's been established in the past few years. If you're a trail rider, it's just not necessary. Plus, if I see a trail that sucks with bumps, I'm turning around; I don't care if I'm hauling 180" track behind me.

Get the XTX if you're a off trail / on trail rider. If you're a groomed trail seeker the majority of the time, a shorter track sled will out manuever it.

jf

jf

 

[Banks93]

If it didn't handle great they would of had a 136" also but since everyone that rode it said it handled better they only made the 144". I disagree with it being harder to turn. The power steering is going to take the weight issue away and I think the 144 is the way of the future. I went with the XTX and I was thinking about the SE.

 

[Banks93]

Dual Shock CK 144
The Dual Shock CK 144 rear suspension is the culmination of many years of development and testing. In order to be the ultimate top performance cross country snowmobile, the Apex XTX needed to have cornering like a 121-inch trail sled, bump bridging like a 136-inch sled and the flotation of a 144-inch sled. The solution is the aggressive 6-degree rear tip-up on the rails, which gives the sled the footprint of a short track model on hardpack and the footprint of a long track model in fresh snow. The coupled design delivers excellent comfort and bump absorption over a wide variety of trail conditions.

 

[Agman 57]

I rode the 128 and 144 last winter at the dealer intro. IMO there is no way I would get the 128, not enough bite when you get on it in the corners or the straights when you nail the throttle,that being said it didn't have studs. And I don't run studs on my won machines. Plus it is much better off trail. I have had 2 Nytro XTX's and loved them and as you can see I now also have the Apex XTX in the barn ready for snow.

 

[ecopter]

Steering may be easier and mask the weight, but that's a different issue than simply being able to handle it in turns. The sled itself has no idea if it's steering is powered or not when the handle bars are turned. That's simply a "feel" item for the rider.

It's the length of the track that affects the sled in turns. As I said, and it can't be gotten around 'cause it's science, it will not handle exactly the same in a turn due to it's length the way something shorter would.

That said, I'm sure it's a great handling machine and rider skill also comes into play. But if you think it's better handling as far as cornering, I'll have to disagree.

Just do a simple experiment: Shove a pole in the ground, pull each sled up so the pole is by the back of the ski which it's beside, and turn each handlebar sharply as to turn around that pole. Do you think the shorties track will hit the pole or the longer track. This is how track length affects turns. The whole procedure of going into a turn changes. It's obviously going to take a different process to go through the same turn with something longer (like a semi-truck turning) than it would for something shorter.

jf

 

[Banks93]

I would say your analogy is flawed and your examples not real world. Do a measurement on the 2010 Vector and the 2011 Apex XTX and you will see they are the same. Which means like I posted before when they realized they have improved the handling of a 144 to be better than the 136 they only made the 144.

An indy car will corner better than Smart For Two car but which one is smaller. Techology and the total package will affect the handling of the sled and make weight an length a non issue. Again they didn't call it a game changer for nothing.

 

[ecopter]

O.K. Longer tracked sleds do handle and corner better than shorter tracked sleds.

jf

 

[**sj**]

I have had a 136 apex (attak) and a 144 nytro xtx...

aside from the handling differences....the skids are entirely different in bump capability...unless you are ditch banger/mogul masher...the mono in the small to mid chop is far superior...its limitations come as the bumps go toward the mogul side of the bump curve (weight of the sled/chassis design contributes to it as well)

you will never get a xtx skid to handle as plush as a mono...but will shine more in extreme conditions...also...with both a nytro and an apex..I found both suspensions...but to be very sensitive to tuning input...
as to the handling there are a ton of details to take into consideration..

mostly what is the predominant terrain you spend time on...

if you ride lots of groomed trail and big straights...the shorter...

lots of curves...bumps...break trail often...the xtx

 

[Banks93]

I wasn't saying that you were wrong I was just trying to point out with the new EPS system you may be able to get away with a longer track handling like a shorter track and allow you to have a smoother ride in the chop because of it. No right or wrongs.

Maybe we can go riding together and then we can ride each other's sleds and then we will have the best of both worlds for half the price.

 

[Nick1945]

I would say your analogy is flawed and your examples not real world. Do a measurement on the 2010 Vector and the 2011 Apex XTX and you will see they are the same. Which means like I posted before when they realized they have improved the handling of a 144 to be better than the 136 they only made the 144.

An indy car will corner better than Smart For Two car but which one is smaller. Techology and the total package will affect the handling of the sled and make weight an length a non issue. Again they didn't call it a game changer for nothing.

Maybe you should point all this helpful info out to all the snowcross guys, I guess they have been doing it wrong, since weight, and length are a non-issue. Then you compare an Indy car to a Smart car for handling, it doesn't get any more " apples to oranges" than that.......LOL

 

[Banks93]

I would say your analogy is flawed and your examples not real world. Do a measurement on the 2010 Vector and the 2011 Apex XTX and you will see they are the same. Which means like I posted before when they realized they have improved the handling of a 144 to be better than the 136 they only made the 144.

An indy car will corner better than Smart For Two car but which one is smaller. Techology and the total package will affect the handling of the sled and make weight an length a non issue. Again they didn't call it a game changer for nothing.

Maybe you should point all this helpful info out to all the snowcross guys, I guess they have been doing it wrong, since weight, and length are a non-issue. Then you compare an Indy car to a Smart car for handling, it doesn't get any more " apples to oranges" than that.......LOL

I am glad you picked up on my sarcasm. It was meant to match his semi truck example. Didn't know the snocross guys had the EPS yet and I/we were talking about trail riding not ditch banging(apple/orange thing). Thank you for your $.02.

 

[bottlerocket]

brian 629 are confussed yet? Put your location in your profile before the forum police get you.