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Are roller secondarys a worthy modification for the RX-1?

Cool, I like the friendly discussions. It's nice to know some don't get their panties in a bunch on this forum. Heh Heh...

Information is power, this site is a great resource for us power junkies.
 

I agree Snowman! If you want to get them in a bunch come here to Washington and listen to the stories regarding our governors race!

Luckily for me, the fellow I ride the most with has a brand new advant-edge secondary on his RX-1 mountain. Hopefully, he will allow me to just swap secondaries for a while and then I'll do some testing with my new G meter and see what we find.

What, nobody like my idea of just putting small wheels in the rub button holes on the stock Yamaha secondary?

frosty
 
I had a goodwin converted polaris roller secondary back in 96 that installed rollers where the buttons used to be. The rollers had to be replaced every season at $20 each & they made no difference in shift characteristics. I added the rollers & did not have to change the primary weights at all....but that was one fast sled back then!!!
 
I did just purchase the Roller Roster 2nd. So far I like it, but I have not been able to do much testing in the mountains 2nd to low snow conditions. I have the 43/39 helix wrapped at 90 degrees (Talk about backshift) with the silver spring. I have the HH's in the primary with the stock spring and 1 size larger rollers. Forgot the size. I think the HH's are at about 56 gms. I think I had the spring wound way too much, so I took it down to 60 and will see how that works. It seemed like my RPMs were higher than usual and my mileage went to Sh%$. I am sure if I added some weight it would be better, but I am shooting more for the deeper snow/boondocking.

FB. When did you get that G-force meter? Sounds like some testing is in order. Fernan, here we come!

J
 
Frostbite, In reply to why hasn't anyone made small wheels to go in the button holes? In 97 Hymark performance in Murry Utah did just that with double roller bearings running on a steel helix that was radiused. They did however run into problems breaking the roller holders on the higher H.P. sleds.
 
Yup, just like I told you "it sounds like a bad idea puting rollers in those button holes" :D

Oh well, like most of my ideas; either someone else has already thought of them or they just don't work (you're supposed to say that in Eeyore's voice) :shock:

Jonny Rocket, Of course you know it's drill weekend so I will be sucking rubber (chemical warfare training) tomorrow. I'm off next friday though if you can go. I'd just LOVE to go to Fernan. Yeah, let's swap secondaries and see if we notice much of a difference. It's good to know that you have the one most recommended by Totallyamaha!

Frosty
 
Docyam252 said:
Frostbite, In reply to why hasn't anyone made small wheels to go in the button holes? In 97 Hymark performance in Murry Utah did just that with double roller bearings running on a steel helix that was radiused. They did however run into problems breaking the roller holders on the higher H.P. sleds.
Click to expand...

I have that setup. I could sell it to you PB. 8)
 
Turk said:
The advant-edge roller is a lot more forgiving when you run too much secondary spring tension.With a non roller secondary If you run too little it will upshift too quickly & not be able to downshift properly when you hit some soft snow or if you get real good traction you will suck the belt down into the secondary & bog!.On the flipside with a regular secondary if you run too much spring tension it will slow down the upshift too much impeding acceleration & scrubbing top speed. On the advant-edge roller you can run a lot more secondary wrap & get the best of both worlds...fast upshift & quick downshift when & if you need it...just having a friendlty debate here!!!!
Click to expand...

No flame here either, I'm just giving my opinion and we all have them and they're all different most of the time...

If had to choose a course of action or a pathway to the most efficient use of my engines "limited" power potential, I would choose a button over a roller.

Turk, you hit the nail on the head, I agree with you completely! You simply need more spring tension to use a roller.

My question is>>>>why would I want to use a stiffer spring in either clutch, primary or secondary? I would rather use no spring at all if I could get away with it!

Why, because springs consume my engines power, PERIOD.

It takes power to compress a spring, just like it takes muscle power to install a helix on a secondary or primary spring in a clutch. The heavier the spring, the more power you waste compressing or overcoming that spring and you loose some of your potential to "go faster" as a result!

This is why I laugh at some clutch component companies that use "truck suspension springs" for clutch springs. Oh yes, heavy primary springs have their place and its on a snowcross track or a ditch bangers sled and its in the primary, not the secondary! Heavier springs work great for throttle response and quick backshift because like I said, the primary and how fast it can open (after you get off the throttle) determins backshifting and not the helix in the secondary! The helix will predict the outcome to some obvious degree after backshift and torque feeds back but thats not backshift, thats the begining of subsequent upshit and re-acceleration!

If I want to go fast, I choose the lightest springs I can get away with! I also select the lightest weight I can use and squeeze the belt and straight shift. This is why I don't use a roller and I'm not a ditch banger and way too old to snowcross!

I've gone pretty fast in my day too and it was all normally aspirated MPH as well! Turbos are for sissys! (just joking)
 
How Fast?

148 MPH in 1320' sanctioned racing.

With 800ccs of normally aspirated Yamaha Power!

Backed it up too, for a record!

I'm actually affrad of a turbo charged RX-1

With 400 plus hp, my caculations show me darn close to 200mph and thats too damn fast for me!
 
Roller secondary.

I have the advantedge roller secondary. It performs. I pull the srx two sled lengths every time we go fro 30 mph and on. Easy to work on. ;)!
 
Superstroker, although I dont have the degree of knowledge that you do, I share your views about rollers. On Vmax sleds I had hi-techs encapsulaed roller and I never did get it right. Duane's answer was to keep putting in progressively stiffer springs.
It looks cool and I like the way it is made, I still have it and would like to put it on my 4 stroke. But I'm in no hurry I guess because I dont want the hassle of messing with it. If somebody could tell me how to make it better than the stock button clutch, I would be grateful.
 
Tork, call Dave Konopaski at 406-892-5679. He has one on his RX-1 and just loves it. I think he is using an Arctic cat yellow secondary spring and has a real low helix angle like 42-38 or 43-39. His sled is a RX-1 Mountain so things may be somewhat different but he should be able to get you in the ballpark.

Frosty
 
Check out shockwaveperformance.com, they make a adjustable helix for Yamaha clutches. Adjustments can be made externally on the trail in a matter of minutes. I don't have any mountain experience with it but it works great here in Minnesota on a SRX and a RX1.
 
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