Are roller secondarys a worthy modification for the RX-1?

[Frostbite]

I have a book nearly full of different clutching variations I have tried on my RX-1. From the 8FA stock weights to 89A (or was it 89L) to 8DN-00 to 53.5 Dalton, 55.5 Dalton and 57.5 Dalton. I even have a set of Dalton weights made specially at my request that have two holes in each weight for adjustablity.
Once I tried the heavy hitters the others were all put in a box and there they sit.
I had two boxes of dalton helixes and primary springs I tried as well. The 54/42 helix worked best for my application. I would have like to have had access to a 56/42 but I never did get to try one.

The O/S/O Yamaha spring works the best for me (except the dalton springs a WAY more consistant).

So Yes, I have done plenty of testing. I believe I have arrived at what works the best for my riding and I pretty much have got as close to perfection as I can with the clutching components I have.

That's why I have asked if Roller Secondarys are worth pursuing. If I hear they work wonderfully I would use one as the next step in my attempt to reach clutching nirvana.

Frosty

 

[Turk]

A local guy that is an incredibly good tuner has a track dyno & the roller rooster has shown a gain in hp at the track!!! I know it works plus I won,t dispute this persons findings cus he forgot more then I will ever know about clutching Yammies!!!

 

[Frostbite]

Turk, does he have a RX-1 clutching recipe? It would be cool to have him check you Adant-edge against it and see which puts more power to the ground.
That would be really cool to know. Throw a team roller in there for good measure to make things really interesting.

Frosty

 

[Turk]

This guy has tested & ran everything that is available. Spec knows him well too! He does a ton of testing on the track dyno & even tho it is not the same as running on snow it does show what set up has an advantedge over other on timed aceleration runs. I have personally seen 2 stock RX,s running these rollers with heelclicker weights pick up a lot of lengths including holeshot in 660-1000' with just a secondary change. It is your call if you want to invest the time & $$$$ on the unit!

 

[Srxspec]

Like I said, the Team isn't bad, the stock Yammy when you have the right combination is better, but the Advant-edge roller is head and shoulders above. There's been alot of testing done and it's been proven time and time again. Turk is correct in what he says about the local tuner in his area. He is the reason we got started with the track dyno and we've spent numerous hours together on the track dyno and numerous hours on the phone and in the field testing as well.

 

[SuperStroker!]

Superstroker, you keep trying to keep me out of trouble. I appreciate that!

So what should I save my money for? Nitrous........... :shock:

Well I guess the right answer would be>>>>>if you want to avoid trouble, leave it stock!

But that wouldn't be any fun now would it?

To "play" you will indeed "PAY"

With money, loss of riding time and agrivation!

But that one fast ride will worth it, until she blows!

Lol!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[SuperStroker!]

Duane Watt from High Tech invented the encapsulated roller that Cat now uses. The rest of em are quickly copying Duanes invention.

The only advantage to a roller, IMO is the ability to encapsulate the rollers on 2 surfaces. You cant do that with buttons! Well I suppose ya could but why bother?

Any setup (upshift and backshift) using a roller, can be duplicated with clutching a button secondary. Any HP gains to the track with a roller, can be duplicated with a button.

Anyone who tells you otherwise, doesn't know any better and truely believes they are correct. They are not correct.

Quicker backshifts with a roller is BS! Backshift is controled by the primary first and then the secondary. A roller or a button>>> doesn't matter. If the primary is squeezing the belt from rotation (doesn't matter if your on the gas or off the gas, rotation equal squeeze) and won't let the belt drop in its sheaves, then the belt cant move up in the secondary (thats backshifting). The quicker you can open the primary when you lift off the gas, the quicker your backshift will be!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Unless you're a ditck banger, don't bother with a roller. If you are a ditch banger, find one that is encapsulated.

 

[spencer2626]

I am a huge fan of Hitech er, and it did awesome things on my srx, but doesnt seem to work on the Rx1. I dont know if its a spring or helix problem, I just know I dont like it.

i am too, awesome performance on my srx's and piped viper...the rx...i just cant get it right...on my mbrp'd and ecp'ed rx, i had last years best set up on and it would hardly pull 9600 with heel clickers...but now am working with stock secondary, pulls 10,500 now have a host of helixes, but ran out of time for now

 

[Snowman269]

Duane Watt from High Tech invented the encapsulated roller that Cat now uses. The rest of em are quickly copying Duanes invention.

The only advantage to a roller, IMO is the ability to encapsulate the rollers on 2 surfaces. You cant do that with buttons! Well I suppose ya could but why bother?

Any setup (upshift and backshift) using a roller, can be duplicated with clutching a button secondary. Any HP gains to the track with a roller, can be duplicated with a button.

Anyone who tells you otherwise, doesn't know any better and truely believes they are correct. They are not correct.

Quicker backshifts with a roller is BS! Backshift is controled by the primary first and then the secondary. A roller or a button>>> doesn't matter. If the primary is squeezing the belt from rotation (doesn't matter if your on the gas or off the gas, rotation equal squeeze) and won't let the belt drop in its sheaves, then the belt cant move up in the secondary (thats backshifting). The quicker you can open the primary when you lift off the gas, the quicker your backshift will be!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Unless you're a ditck banger, don't bother with a roller. If you are a ditch banger, find one that is encapsulated.

I’m putting on my flame suit!

I absolutely agree with everything SS said. In a straight line drag race, a roller is no faster than a button. If someone installs a roller and quickens the sled in a drag race, the Primary Clutch wasn’t set up right to begin with. The Primary controls the shift rpm. Many people clutch by changing the helix, because they don’t know how to setup the primary.

A roller is perfect for Snowcross, DitchBanging & Very Aggressive Trail Riding. The roller shines in these areas where you are on the gas, on the brake, on the gas over and over again.

Turk, I respect your input. It would take some serious data to change my position.

Snowman269

 

[Turk]

The advant-edge roller is a lot more forgiving when you run too much secondary spring tension.With a non roller secondary If you run too little it will upshift too quickly & not be able to downshift properly when you hit some soft snow or if you get real good traction you will suck the belt down into the secondary & bog!.On the flipside with a regular secondary if you run too much spring tension it will slow down the upshift too much impeding acceleration & scrubbing top speed. On the advant-edge roller you can run a lot more secondary wrap & get the best of both worlds...fast upshift & quick downshift when & if you need it...just having a friendlty debate here!!!!

 

[Frostbite]

I still don't understand why someone just hasn't built and sold small wheels (with bearings) that are mounted on a short post and slip into the holes where the plastic rub buttons on the stock Yamaha clutch fit now?

No, it wouldn't be encapsulated but wouldn't that provide a very inexpesnive way of achieving a roller clutch?

I must admit I am now interested in the Advat-edge secondary. Is it a complete secondary replacement like the Team (I don't think so). What does one run price wise? What angle helix do you recommend for my multipurpose riding?

Frosty

 

[Turk]

Try this link
http://www.advant-edgemotorsport.com/

I think in the mountains something like a 43 ish initial with about a 35ish finish would work. Remember with this roller you gotta add about 10 degrees on each end to match a regular button helix.

 

[Snowman269]

The advant-edge roller is a lot more forgiving when you run too much secondary spring tension. I agree. With a non roller secondary If you run too little it will upshift too quickly & not be able to downshift properly when you hit some soft snow or if you get real good traction you will suck the belt down into the secondary & bog!. Yep. On the flipside with a regular secondary if you run too much spring tension it will slow down the upshift too much impeding acceleration & scrubbing top speed. Yep On the advant-edge roller you can run a lot more secondary wrap & get the best of both worlds...fast upshift & quick downshift when & if you need it...just having a friendlty debate here!!!!

Ok, my point is that a properly setup button clutch can shift out ( under acceleration) just as fast as a Roller. The Roller has less friction on the backshift.

Most guys want to just beat their buddy in a drag race, therefore the roller isn’t needed. If you have lotsa mula,get the roller, if you don’t, there are other cool goodies with higher bang for the buck. The Primary Clutch kit will make all of the difference for 90% of the guys riding on this site.

 

[Ted Jannetty]

All this stuff about what brands work best with what brands or what brands don't work on what brands if VOOODOOO, or DOODOO.
It is just a matter of how much money is burning a hole in your pocket and wether your willing to spend the additional time and money to make it work for your style of riding.

You can use factory parts and achieve what you want or you can use aftermarket parts that look pretty and achieve what you want.

I am a fan of cool looking parts that work well.

Simple rules of clutching, change your weights to achieve RPM then change helix to achieve upshift or back shift you can't have it all.

If you like cruising for mileage go high on the helix like a 54-46 or if you like woods riding and like instant response go with a 50-40 and keep in mind mileage will suffer.

I found the White Warrior spring to work best on all the RX models on 3-3.
and the Y-S-Y stock front spring.
I like Dalton 52-44 for all around.
Heavy hitters in front.

All these parts are availible through Matt at the speed shop.

 

[Buckeye]

Ok, my point is that a properly setup button clutch can shift out ( under acceleration) just as fast as a Roller. The Roller has less friction on the backshift.

Most guys want to just beat their buddy in a drag race, therefore the roller isn’t needed. If you have lotsa mula,get the roller, if you don’t, there are other cool goodies with higher bang for the buck. The Primary Clutch kit will make all of the difference for 90% of the guys riding on this site.

I agree.

Plus Ted is absolutely right.