eric3793
Pro
Does anyone think the 2010 Skidoo Expedition with a 600SDI would be a good utility sled? I like my wife's '07 Renegade SDI. She did bend the nose when her ski caught a gate post...$800 in parts. But I think most machines would have been damaged given the same hit. Maybe Skidoo's frames are not rugged enough for hard utility use.
I have a '08 VK and I agree it is a real handful on ungroomed trails. I went to Yamaha after two Polaris WT's because I wanted more top speed. I got that (90mph+) but the added weight is something I didn't bargin for. The Polaris WT would go places that I would not dream of going on the VK. I wonder if the Skidoo with a light 2-stroke would get me back to WT off-trail capability with the power for long runs on lakes and groomed trails.
I have a '08 VK and I agree it is a real handful on ungroomed trails. I went to Yamaha after two Polaris WT's because I wanted more top speed. I got that (90mph+) but the added weight is something I didn't bargin for. The Polaris WT would go places that I would not dream of going on the VK. I wonder if the Skidoo with a light 2-stroke would get me back to WT off-trail capability with the power for long runs on lakes and groomed trails.
waynes
Veteran
I am also looking at the ski-doo widetrack. I have a couple of freinds who have the 600sdi widetrack and really like them. the local dealer is going to arrange a demo ride for me on the new 4-stroke expedition tuv 1200. Polaris has a new 600 cleanfire IQ widetrack which I will also demo ride this season as well. I had the opportunity to try the polaris 4stroke widetrack last season and found it to handle much better than vk pro but it lacked power as it is only 80 hp If yamaha wants to keep it share of the utility market they had better make the much needed improvements to the vk pro. It needs a new skid and the motor needs to be lowered to keep it from being so top heavy. Just having a good motor is not all that is needed in this segament of the market
riley.l
Newbie
- Joined
- Jan 1, 2008
- Messages
- 9
Have to agree with eric , yamaha are definately left behind on the groomed trail , while the expedition is playing in the deep powder, it is just tooo heavy. Obviously yamaha are lacking, the desire to keep up with the competition in the utility market, they got the motor right but fell asleep with the rest. I already know what my next machine will be , not a viking.
air19
Pro
waynes said:
Waynes,
Have you thought about putting tracks on your Sportsman ATV. I noticed on your profile that you have an 09 500. Does it have EPS? With a 500 this should be enough to power.
waynes
Veteran
Air 19, my 500 does have EPS but I haven't considered tracks, I had a demo ride and foundl them to be too slow.I do a lot of back country riding and there is just too much snow most of the time. My big issue with the vk pro is its handling off trail. I beleive its pulling power is second to none. I previously owned polaris widetracks since 1990 and had no problems other than fuel economy and power. They were much better handling sleds then the vk pro
eric3793
Pro
I'm with Wayne regarding the Polaris WT. I had a '94 and then a 2000. I loved them both but I needed more power and speed. The VK has both and is nice on those long 70 mph runs on groomed trails. Boondocking with the Polaris WT was fun but the VK is top heavy beyond belief. I rolled mine gently on its side and two of us had all we could do just to get the beast back on its feet.
I have not seen too many reports about the 600 SDI Expedition. It weighs about the same as my old WT but has 118 hp. It is 160 lbs. lighter than the VK. Polaris has a new 600 WT with the same power but it is the first year. I have not seen any weight information on it yet.
I have not seen too many reports about the 600 SDI Expedition. It weighs about the same as my old WT but has 118 hp. It is 160 lbs. lighter than the VK. Polaris has a new 600 WT with the same power but it is the first year. I have not seen any weight information on it yet.
longtrack
Veteran
- Joined
- Nov 23, 2009
- Messages
- 46
If I recall correctly in previous posts its mentioned that the VK is good in deep snow off trail with the 11" skins on?
And also apparently the VK is a top seller in Scandavania and other European countries. There must be a reason for this. They don't get a lot of snow there?
And also apparently the VK is a top seller in Scandavania and other European countries. There must be a reason for this. They don't get a lot of snow there?
waynes
Veteran
The vk does handle better in the deep powder with the 11 inch skins but there are other issues you have to deal with once you get out in the deep stuff. The big issue is ice build up in the tunnel so much so that it really increases the weight and makes it harder to handle. I have owned a vk pro since they came out in 06 traded for an o8. In the four seasons I have owned this model I have put over 18,000 km on these 2 sleds and a lot of the time off trail. The strongest point for this sled is the motor, but the heavy motor is what makes it so hard to handle. The skid under this thing is the same skid that came out on the old vk in 99.
I really like the fit and finish of yamaha, but they really need to address some serious issues with the utility segament of their product or they will fall far behind. When this sled was introduced in 06 the local dealer couldn't keep them in stock, but now they have a hard time moving them
I really like the fit and finish of yamaha, but they really need to address some serious issues with the utility segament of their product or they will fall far behind. When this sled was introduced in 06 the local dealer couldn't keep them in stock, but now they have a hard time moving them
crossbome
Newbie
Interesting discussion - I'm not a Yamaha owner but I thought you might be able to use my observations on the 2009 AC Bearcat Z1 XT. I bought it late last year and used it on the trails then. It has a Z1 four stroke, 125HP. It weights about 800# and has a 17 gallon tank. I found the big 156"X20" track was very hard and slid quite easily on ice and icy trails. So before I put it back on the trails this year I had 134 studs put on it. That took care of that problem.
I bought it to use in Maine's remote and wilderness areas. This would mean no or few trails and lots of new areas. I just put it on the trails this year when a blizzard hit and in the middle of it a boy and his sled got lost. So for two days I was sledding on almost no trails and plenty of powder. The machine did very well and never got stuck. One night I was sledding up a VERY steep hill with 8' drifts and she plowed right thru it. You have to surf it like the mountain sleds do standing up but she goes. I didn't find anything in two days she couldn't handle and she never got stuck.
Now all that said she had problems: First, when turning in powder she starts to fall off on the down side ski and you have to throw yourself on the up side to right her. Second, in all conditions, she is a lot of work in woods on narrow trails. Lastly, I never taken her in powder when she is loaded with 3 people or gear.
I am going to widen her stance this weekend. Called the dealer and it's easy to widen her skis 4". That will help. Someone told me to loosen my straps up front and that should help with my steering (I think).
Well, all this being said, this machine may be what you're looking for. She has a very long range, comfortable and carries a lot of gear. With 4 stroke she should be dependable. I don't know if this is your answer but you may want to look at it. The bad news is it is expensive.
We never found the boy and his machine.
I bought it to use in Maine's remote and wilderness areas. This would mean no or few trails and lots of new areas. I just put it on the trails this year when a blizzard hit and in the middle of it a boy and his sled got lost. So for two days I was sledding on almost no trails and plenty of powder. The machine did very well and never got stuck. One night I was sledding up a VERY steep hill with 8' drifts and she plowed right thru it. You have to surf it like the mountain sleds do standing up but she goes. I didn't find anything in two days she couldn't handle and she never got stuck.
Now all that said she had problems: First, when turning in powder she starts to fall off on the down side ski and you have to throw yourself on the up side to right her. Second, in all conditions, she is a lot of work in woods on narrow trails. Lastly, I never taken her in powder when she is loaded with 3 people or gear.
I am going to widen her stance this weekend. Called the dealer and it's easy to widen her skis 4". That will help. Someone told me to loosen my straps up front and that should help with my steering (I think).
Well, all this being said, this machine may be what you're looking for. She has a very long range, comfortable and carries a lot of gear. With 4 stroke she should be dependable. I don't know if this is your answer but you may want to look at it. The bad news is it is expensive.
We never found the boy and his machine.
waynes
Veteran
crossbome, thanks for your input on the cat. sorry to hear about the boy as it is always sad to hear about someone lost in the bush while doing something they really enjoy.
I am trying to get as much info as possible this winter about the different widetracks out there to help make my decision easier for buying a new sled next season. They all seem to have their good points and bad ones.
The most common complaint about the 4-stroke models is that they are front heavy. I know the 4-stroke engines are more reliable but I kinda look at it the same as buying a diesel in a pick-up. You pay a lot more money for a stronger engine and great pulling power but all the rest of the gear is the same It's still a pick-up.
I will definetily be looking at the cat as well, but what I reallywould like to see is yamaha step up to the plate and address some of the issues with the vk.
I am trying to get as much info as possible this winter about the different widetracks out there to help make my decision easier for buying a new sled next season. They all seem to have their good points and bad ones.
The most common complaint about the 4-stroke models is that they are front heavy. I know the 4-stroke engines are more reliable but I kinda look at it the same as buying a diesel in a pick-up. You pay a lot more money for a stronger engine and great pulling power but all the rest of the gear is the same It's still a pick-up.
I will definetily be looking at the cat as well, but what I reallywould like to see is yamaha step up to the plate and address some of the issues with the vk.
eric3793
Pro
There's some great YouTube showing the Bearcat Z1 in action. Search this site for "Yellowknife" who posted dozens of his adventures with his Yamaha mountain sleds and his friend's Bearcat. I'm not sure the new Bearcat is dramatically better than the VK. The Bearcat rear suspension is better that's for sure. The VK sounds so nice when wound up...much better than the Bearcat. They are both workhorses but still VERY heavy. I love the Bearcat's rack and bumpers. The style of the Bearcat is nice but the colors...well maybe my tastes are old school. I really like the red or black VK for looks.
The previous post regarding demand for the VK is very true. I know of three new machines and two barely used '08 machines that are not moving. The word is out about the weight, handling and rear suspension. Yamaha needs to improve the VK.
I'm into my third winter with the '08 and I am not quite ready to change to another utility machine. But I am very careful about where I try to go especially if I am alone. I never worried with my old Polaris WT. This is why I am trying to get more information on the new Expedition 600SDI. There is not much information out there about this machine except for the light weight and syncromesh transmission. It would be handy to shift from low to hi without stopping. I would use this feature alot.
The previous post regarding demand for the VK is very true. I know of three new machines and two barely used '08 machines that are not moving. The word is out about the weight, handling and rear suspension. Yamaha needs to improve the VK.
I'm into my third winter with the '08 and I am not quite ready to change to another utility machine. But I am very careful about where I try to go especially if I am alone. I never worried with my old Polaris WT. This is why I am trying to get more information on the new Expedition 600SDI. There is not much information out there about this machine except for the light weight and syncromesh transmission. It would be handy to shift from low to hi without stopping. I would use this feature alot.
waynes
Veteran
I think you maybe right about the bearcat not being that much different than the vk, although the ride is better for sure. There is no douubt the 600 sdi expedition will have a lighter feel to it when out in the powder, after all it is quite a bit lighter. Since 1990 I have had 4 polaris widetracks and they proved to be very reliable sleds. Each sled would have at least 12,000 mi before getting a new one and like eric I never would worry about where I pointed it (maybe if I was 20 yrs younger I wouldn,t be so carefull now) I will try the new 600 cleanfire Polaris in a few weeks and I will compare with the vk for things that I have a problem with with 
that sled.
I don't think I will find anything out there anymore reliable and with any better quality then the yamaha.
that sled.I don't think I will find anything out there anymore reliable and with any better quality then the yamaha.
crossbome
Newbie
I agree with your wish that Yamaha would upgrade the VK. I have had many Yamaha motorcycles and love the brand. Their motorcycles are bullet prove and I figured the sled would be too. However, I wanted a sled that was state of the art since machines are improving rapidly and I didn't want it to be out of date in two years.
I have owned a number of 2 stroke Ski Doo over the years but was tired of frigging with carbs, oil injection,etc. When it was really cold I wanted it to start like a car. I have a Can Am Outlander 800 and it is a totally reliable ATV and starts everywhere at anytime. So it appeared in the beginning that I would buy a four stroke, fuel injected Ski Doo Expedition. However, I couldn't find one! There wasn't a single Expedition in ME or NH to be had. The dealer said he could get me one from the midwest but he wanted more than list to do that. So, I went to my next choice which was the VK. However, not having fuel injection and the antiquated design stopped me dead in my tracks. I went so far as to talk to some senior people at Yamaha Motors in California to see if they had plans to change the 2010's so I could wait to buy a sled. No luck, they said they had no plans to change the VK in the near future.
That was when I looked at the AC. I started reading the test reports and was surprised it was a new model and how it was the leader in those reports. As a pilot, I am techically oriented and looked at those features first. When I drove it I was surprised by the power but I never went off trail with it so that part was just a guess. However, I teach ATV riding so I was familiar with the brand. But, like all of the big brands, there are good machines and bad ones so I had no strong opinion about AC.
The bottom line is it is often a crap shoot when you buy something like these machines. If you ask some one who owns a sled they often extol the virtues of their machine because it is really good or because it really sucks and they don't want to admit they made a mistake. Drive as many as you can in the conditions you expect to use it in. In two months they'll be falling over each other to sell you a machine. I know people who used a machine for a weekend because the dealer wanted to move it.
If I had to do it over again I would go the same route I went. Figure out exactly what want I in a sled as a minimum and then go looking. IMHO I think the key is to know exactly what you want and then not bend on those requirements. You may have to wait until next year to get the machine that meets your requirement but at least you'll be pleased with it.
Good luck!
I have owned a number of 2 stroke Ski Doo over the years but was tired of frigging with carbs, oil injection,etc. When it was really cold I wanted it to start like a car. I have a Can Am Outlander 800 and it is a totally reliable ATV and starts everywhere at anytime. So it appeared in the beginning that I would buy a four stroke, fuel injected Ski Doo Expedition. However, I couldn't find one! There wasn't a single Expedition in ME or NH to be had. The dealer said he could get me one from the midwest but he wanted more than list to do that. So, I went to my next choice which was the VK. However, not having fuel injection and the antiquated design stopped me dead in my tracks. I went so far as to talk to some senior people at Yamaha Motors in California to see if they had plans to change the 2010's so I could wait to buy a sled. No luck, they said they had no plans to change the VK in the near future.
That was when I looked at the AC. I started reading the test reports and was surprised it was a new model and how it was the leader in those reports. As a pilot, I am techically oriented and looked at those features first. When I drove it I was surprised by the power but I never went off trail with it so that part was just a guess. However, I teach ATV riding so I was familiar with the brand. But, like all of the big brands, there are good machines and bad ones so I had no strong opinion about AC.
The bottom line is it is often a crap shoot when you buy something like these machines. If you ask some one who owns a sled they often extol the virtues of their machine because it is really good or because it really sucks and they don't want to admit they made a mistake. Drive as many as you can in the conditions you expect to use it in. In two months they'll be falling over each other to sell you a machine. I know people who used a machine for a weekend because the dealer wanted to move it.
If I had to do it over again I would go the same route I went. Figure out exactly what want I in a sled as a minimum and then go looking. IMHO I think the key is to know exactly what you want and then not bend on those requirements. You may have to wait until next year to get the machine that meets your requirement but at least you'll be pleased with it.
Good luck!
waynes
Veteran
Thanks Crossbome for your valuable insight. Investing in a snowmobile those days is an expensive propostion so some research is needed before you hand over the dough. I purchased my first snowmobile in 1970 and paid $650 for it. (1970 ski-doo olympic) i am now on my 15th sled since then and they sure are a lot different. I guess though it is all relivent as it was just as hard to come up with that $650 as it is the 14 or 15 grand today. The main issue for me is finding something that suits my needs and riding style. It has to be a widetrack as I have a backcountry camp that can only be reached in the winter by snowmobile. I also have an outfitting camp that I need to keep supplied with firewood for the fall hunting season. visit web site www.newfoundlandmoosehunt.com and have look. Not trying to solicit business just letting you have look at where we are. (already sold out for the next couple of years)
