crossbome
Newbie
I love hunting - when I'm thru paying off my sled I may come and try your place. You sure have a beautiful place. I have to admit that I don't much like Moose meat though 
longtrack
Veteran
- Joined
- Nov 23, 2009
- Messages
- 46
I was just on arcticchat where one guy was complaining that his bearcat 570 xt doesnt have enough power to spin the track if he stops in powder. Another guy answered him and said he had the same problem and had to get carb work done to get it to spin in 6" of powder.
Someone on dootalk blew his 2010 expedition 600sdi motor after 200 miles.
So I guess they all have their problems
I think the manufacturers have to stop trying to make touring/utility machines and stick with pure utility or pure touring.
Seems the best I've heard of is the skandic swt for deep snow but I dont know if you'd want it to cruise the trails with it.
Someone on dootalk blew his 2010 expedition 600sdi motor after 200 miles.
So I guess they all have their problems
I think the manufacturers have to stop trying to make touring/utility machines and stick with pure utility or pure touring.
Seems the best I've heard of is the skandic swt for deep snow but I dont know if you'd want it to cruise the trails with it.
waynes
Veteran
Yea, your are right on the money, they all have their good points and bad.
A guy not to far from me just bought a 2010 vk pro and blew the motor with 40 km. It was a manufacturers' defect, but still it is an inconvenience for sure. I have been following the different forums and they all seem to have their problems and loyal followers I guess it will probably come down to service when I purchase my new sled for 2011. This has been a crappy year for snow so far here but it is starting to change again now. We had some good snow in mid-dec but lost a lot of it. Hopefully it will be tacked on to the end of the season. Some good info and insights here on this site. Oh well decisions, decisions
A guy not to far from me just bought a 2010 vk pro and blew the motor with 40 km. It was a manufacturers' defect, but still it is an inconvenience for sure. I have been following the different forums and they all seem to have their problems and loyal followers I guess it will probably come down to service when I purchase my new sled for 2011. This has been a crappy year for snow so far here but it is starting to change again now. We had some good snow in mid-dec but lost a lot of it. Hopefully it will be tacked on to the end of the season. Some good info and insights here on this site. Oh well decisions, decisions
crossbome
Newbie
Take a look at http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dA5I1A8txOU . This is the series done at Yellowkhife by gofenkoa. There are17 weekends (I think). They're at -40 F and in remote areas. It is a little chatty but it really shows the wear and tear on the machines and what each machine can or won't do. I was surprised that relative new machines were blowing engines.
I was please with the Bearcat Z1 but am going to look at a battery warmer or engine warmer. It seems at -40 the AC battery can't handle it. Don't have -40 here often but when you do you want it to start.
I was please with the Bearcat Z1 but am going to look at a battery warmer or engine warmer. It seems at -40 the AC battery can't handle it. Don't have -40 here often but when you do you want it to start.
eric3793
Pro
crossbome said:
Hey Crossbome...
Did you see the Yellowknife segment when the Bearcat got off trail and busted his a-arm? The close-up video of the break made me appreciate how much stronger the VK a-arms seem to be. I got into those videos by using "sleding adventure". There are 25 different 10 minute vids. Quite amusing. I hope Yellowknife continues the series this year. They really beat the crap out of their machines and tow sleds. They had over 4' of ice at the end of April last year with plenty of snow.
I see you are from So. China. I was involved in building the new supermarket up there.
eric3793
Pro
I meant to write "sleding weekend" for the youtube search. Regarding the Bearcat a-arm damage, the guy crossed a little stream and caught a ski...stopped him dead and probably he screwed up his knee. Anyway, a later weekend he busted the a-arm which was likely related to the previous accident. Imagine the force when a 800 pound sled stops dead and tosses a 250 lb. rider over the bars.
crossbome
Newbie
I looked at all the ones I could find on YouTube but I missed two. They must have been the A arm incidents. I am not surprised that he cut an A arm if he caught a ski. I did it once on a Ski Doo I owned. That Ski Doo didn't weight 800# empty plus a 250# man (as mentioned above) plus the weight of gas and gear. He was probably grossing out at 1200#.
The videos surprised me with the many blown engines, burned clutch and lost tracks. At first I thought they were just hot-doggers but that doesn't appear to be the case. In any case the AC did in the videos exactly what I bought my Bearcat for - haul heavy loads for long distances in the wilderness environment. All in all the videos were pretty good and educational. Not sure they meant them to be but that is how I viewed them.
I am going to look at an engine preheater and a battery warmer.
The videos surprised me with the many blown engines, burned clutch and lost tracks. At first I thought they were just hot-doggers but that doesn't appear to be the case. In any case the AC did in the videos exactly what I bought my Bearcat for - haul heavy loads for long distances in the wilderness environment. All in all the videos were pretty good and educational. Not sure they meant them to be but that is how I viewed them.
I am going to look at an engine preheater and a battery warmer.
crossbome
Newbie
eric3793 said:
Yeah, we now have a real store and three gas stations in 50sq miles! I like being in the boonies but development worries me.
I have to admit I enjoy the new supermarket though!
eric3793
Pro
I've only looked at the BC Z1 but is sure seemed like it has some features I would like. Primarily the rear suspension. The bumpers & rack are nice too. Oh yeah, gas tank capacity. I'm sure there are more.
One of the guys I ride with has a 660 Bearcat and he loves it. It is a bit low on power without a turbo but his suspension is so nice that I cannot keep up with him on the bumpy trails. He jokes about filling it up in January and riding the whole season without worrying about gas. He claims an easy 250 to 300 miles per tank. But then again, I think he is putting out 50 hp. He has over 4000 miles on it with no issues at all.
Have you had an opportunity to see top end on the new Bearcat yet?
One of the guys I ride with has a 660 Bearcat and he loves it. It is a bit low on power without a turbo but his suspension is so nice that I cannot keep up with him on the bumpy trails. He jokes about filling it up in January and riding the whole season without worrying about gas. He claims an easy 250 to 300 miles per tank. But then again, I think he is putting out 50 hp. He has over 4000 miles on it with no issues at all.
Have you had an opportunity to see top end on the new Bearcat yet?
crossbome
Newbie
I haven't tried to reach top end yet. I normally have just myself on it but I have had it up to 75 MPH and it still had a lot more to go. It accelerates like a rocket ship. Now that I have the studs on it you can't stop or slow it's acceleration. My best guess is she will break 100 MPH.
Unfortunately you have to slow when you're in wooded areas and the other machines will easily pull ahead then. On tight trails in the woods it is a lot of work. The fellow in the video says it handles like a school bus and he's right. The rest of the time it's up there with the best of them. Of course the others can't haul the loads this baby can haul.
If I were comparing her to a car it would be a top of the line pick up truck.
Unfortunately you have to slow when you're in wooded areas and the other machines will easily pull ahead then. On tight trails in the woods it is a lot of work. The fellow in the video says it handles like a school bus and he's right. The rest of the time it's up there with the best of them. Of course the others can't haul the loads this baby can haul.
If I were comparing her to a car it would be a top of the line pick up truck.
eric3793
Pro
That sounds like great performance. The VK is good for just over 90 if the conditions are just right. I was trying to get the best machine that would break trail 5 miles into camp while towing a large Otter sled loaded with stuff. It does that well. I also groom 10 miles of trails when we are up there. Then I ride in the county with others that have fast sleds so keeping up with them on 200 + mile days was a goal. The VK does all these things and initially I was very happy. The weak points on the VK are the rear suspension and the high center of gravity. However, I have nearly 4000 miles on the VK without any issues at all so overall quality is excellent.
I added 11" skins and these certainly look unique drawing alot of attention from onloookers. They help float the front in the deep snow but did not help handling much.
If I had it to do over again I would look very closely at the Bearcat.
I added 11" skins and these certainly look unique drawing alot of attention from onloookers. They help float the front in the deep snow but did not help handling much.
If I had it to do over again I would look very closely at the Bearcat.
waynes
Veteran
Great discussion guys on the utility segament or old guy sleds as some of the younger crowd call them. If some of them had to take out one of these monsters for a couple of hundred mile day trip they may not be so quick to call them old guy sleds. I have had contact with Yellowknife on the utility segament to see what info he has on the different brands and the only sled he is familiar with is the bearcat. In Labrador where these sleds are used a lot for both work and play the sled of choice seems to be the brp widetrack, although the vk certainly has its following up that way and these guys really put their sleds to the test. The first year of Cains Quest the race was won by two locals on vk pros.
The more I shop around and gather info the harder it gets to make a choice. When I get to demo the expedition tuv 1200 and polaris iq widetrack 600 I will post my opinion. If only the engineers at Yamaha could read and change that skid from the dark ages
The more I shop around and gather info the harder it gets to make a choice. When I get to demo the expedition tuv 1200 and polaris iq widetrack 600 I will post my opinion. If only the engineers at Yamaha could read and change that skid from the dark ages
eric3793
Pro
waynes said:Great discussion guys on the utility segament or old guy sleds as some of the younger crowd call them. If some of them had to take out one of these monsters for a couple of hundred mile day trip they may not be so quick to call them old guy sleds. I have had contact with Yellowknife on the utility segament to see what info he has on the different brands and the only sled he is familiar with is the bearcat. In Labrador where these sleds are used a lot for both work and play the sled of choice seems to be the brp widetrack, although the vk certainly has its following up that way and these guys really put their sleds to the test. The first year of Cains Quest the race was won by two locals on vk pros.
The more I shop around and gather info the harder it gets to make a choice. When I get to demo the expedition tuv 1200 and polaris iq widetrack 600 I will post my opinion. If only the engineers at Yamaha could read and change that skid from the dark ages
So there's no interest out there for the 600SDI Expedition, eh? This model interests me due to the light weight. I understand the lure of the 4-stroke but I miss not being able to go anywhere off-trail like I could with the old Polaris WT. I think the new 600 Wide Track is quite alot heavier that the Expedition. I should check that to be sure. Both engines are solid performers.
Attachments
air19
Pro
Hey Eric,
I was checking out some dry weights on various websites:
Polaris Widetrack IQ - 730 lbs
Polaris 600 Widetrack IQ - 697 lbs
Skidoo Expedition 600 - 630 lbs
Skidoo Expedition 1200 - 690 lbs
Skidoo Skandic SWT 800 - 717 lbs
Artic Cat Bearcat Z1XT didn't have a weight on the website
and the heavy weight hog by a long shot, the Yamaha VK Pro - 782 lbs.
The Ski-Doo forum has lots of fans of the Expedition. Check out http://www.dootalk.com/forums/index.php?showforum=92
Lots of good discussion here. I think I may be the only user left who has a particular job that the VK Pro performs well with - pulling all day at slow speeds on predictable trail surfaces. I'm basically using my VK Pro for grooming 95% of the time and skidding logs or gathering firewood the rest of the time. For grooming I need a strong puller that doesn't overheat and after an extra $1000 spent on the second radiator I've got the cooling fixed. I also need good steering and improved floatation and I've fixed that with the superwide Flexi-skis another $400.
But like many of you I am waiting and hoping for improvements. Even on my predicatable ski trails where I am driving the same 20 miles every day I still have had a ski up in the air more than I wanted to as I did some drastic aerobatics to try avoid a tip. Once a month when it's tipped over and I'm thankful I haven't been caught underneath it yet, I don't even try to muscle this beast. I carry a come-along and straps all the time.
I hate all the ice building up in the tunnel. A couple times a week I pull it into a heated space to melt down all the accumulation.
I used to hate the shifting problems, but my dealer made adjustments on the chain tension and that is finally improved.
I'm hoping for two more years with the beast, that will be five and plenty of miles of grooming behind me. At that point I will probably make the switch over to an ATV with power steering and the latest track setup from Tatou. Many groomers have made the switch to Yamaha Grizzlys with EPS and are very happy with the results. It would work for me compared to some of you like Wayne because I'm always traveling at 20 mph or less and the tracked ATV can certainly do that. But I would miss the fun I always have when we get a foot of new powder and I can take the snowmobile out solo and pack trail before I hitch on a grooming implement. So I'm hoping in two years that I'll have better choices. But my hopes aren't high because I really don't want a new year model. It seems rare now a days for a first year sled introduction to come off successfully. And when it doesn't I haven't seen any manufacturers help out their customers. We will see. Again I have an easier dedicated use and after two years I know everything the VK can do and everything it can't.
I was checking out some dry weights on various websites:
Polaris Widetrack IQ - 730 lbs
Polaris 600 Widetrack IQ - 697 lbs
Skidoo Expedition 600 - 630 lbs
Skidoo Expedition 1200 - 690 lbs
Skidoo Skandic SWT 800 - 717 lbs
Artic Cat Bearcat Z1XT didn't have a weight on the website
and the heavy weight hog by a long shot, the Yamaha VK Pro - 782 lbs.
The Ski-Doo forum has lots of fans of the Expedition. Check out http://www.dootalk.com/forums/index.php?showforum=92
Lots of good discussion here. I think I may be the only user left who has a particular job that the VK Pro performs well with - pulling all day at slow speeds on predictable trail surfaces. I'm basically using my VK Pro for grooming 95% of the time and skidding logs or gathering firewood the rest of the time. For grooming I need a strong puller that doesn't overheat and after an extra $1000 spent on the second radiator I've got the cooling fixed. I also need good steering and improved floatation and I've fixed that with the superwide Flexi-skis another $400.
But like many of you I am waiting and hoping for improvements. Even on my predicatable ski trails where I am driving the same 20 miles every day I still have had a ski up in the air more than I wanted to as I did some drastic aerobatics to try avoid a tip. Once a month when it's tipped over and I'm thankful I haven't been caught underneath it yet, I don't even try to muscle this beast. I carry a come-along and straps all the time.
I hate all the ice building up in the tunnel. A couple times a week I pull it into a heated space to melt down all the accumulation.
I used to hate the shifting problems, but my dealer made adjustments on the chain tension and that is finally improved.
I'm hoping for two more years with the beast, that will be five and plenty of miles of grooming behind me. At that point I will probably make the switch over to an ATV with power steering and the latest track setup from Tatou. Many groomers have made the switch to Yamaha Grizzlys with EPS and are very happy with the results. It would work for me compared to some of you like Wayne because I'm always traveling at 20 mph or less and the tracked ATV can certainly do that. But I would miss the fun I always have when we get a foot of new powder and I can take the snowmobile out solo and pack trail before I hitch on a grooming implement. So I'm hoping in two years that I'll have better choices. But my hopes aren't high because I really don't want a new year model. It seems rare now a days for a first year sled introduction to come off successfully. And when it doesn't I haven't seen any manufacturers help out their customers. We will see. Again I have an easier dedicated use and after two years I know everything the VK can do and everything it can't.
waynes
Veteran
Air 19, you are right on about the pulling power of this beast and if I was using it just for that purpose it would suit my needs perfectly, but I like to spend some time in the hills and off trail and I really find this sled hard to handle especially when side hilling. It really makes you work to keep it upright. The turning radius is almost as much as my tundra pick-up.
The polaris has a unique feature in that instead of a articulated rear suspension the suspension has a slight curve to it toward the rear. so much so that when you are on hard pack it doesn't touch which gives the feeling of a shorter track when turning. I have used the 4-stroke polaris and this seems to work quite well. However you can really notice the difference in power between this sled and the vk. If polaris makes it available in the turbo well then that could be a different story.
I think the expedition 600 sdi is a great sled and probably would serve my needs more then any other sled out there in the utility department, but I want to demo the four-stroke in that sled first. All good stuff here and on the other forums
The polaris has a unique feature in that instead of a articulated rear suspension the suspension has a slight curve to it toward the rear. so much so that when you are on hard pack it doesn't touch which gives the feeling of a shorter track when turning. I have used the 4-stroke polaris and this seems to work quite well. However you can really notice the difference in power between this sled and the vk. If polaris makes it available in the turbo well then that could be a different story.
I think the expedition 600 sdi is a great sled and probably would serve my needs more then any other sled out there in the utility department, but I want to demo the four-stroke in that sled first. All good stuff here and on the other forums
