Cam cap/cam shaft issue.

[WesG]

got some issues.... 06 apex. pulled head off when brand new to install head shim. Thought one of the cam caps fit abit tight when I was pulling it apart, but being it was new, carried on reassembling the motor. Developed a head gasket leak at high boost levels. pulled it apart and low and behold, the cap that was tight was tight again. got it apart and found metal deposits/scaring on both the cap and the head-side of the cap. The cam shaft itself looks to be ok, but it does have some light markings. On the camshaft I cannot feel any scaring by hand, it feels smooth. The cap and head on the other hand have some definate piting/deposits. Enough deposits that I had to clean it up in order to get all my buckets/shims out. WTF?!? everything was super clean and well oiled when reassembled. Tightened to shop manual procedure. Unsure of why it failed. Thinking tolerances were to tight??? foreign debris??? did not find any when I pulled it apart. Can a head be repaired/checked to ensure it is ok? Scared that a deposit is going to find its way onto a bucket/lobe and stick a valve.... Then big boom

 

[Skydog]

I bet it did not get tq down square.

 

[WesG]

Ya, I thought of that also. But the cap was tight when I removed it from the factory. Tight enough that it was semi-hard to turn around the camshaft by hand, with the camshaft out. All the other caps spun easily, while that one took some effort to turn around the shaft. I should have stopped and called someone in the know I will take some pictures tomorrow and post them. If the bearing surface is ok, should I run it( I don't think I should risk it)? Should I get a new head? $? get the head repaired? blows chunks, best snow in alot of years and I'm going to be down for some time. oh well have

 

[givemeaboost]

The caps must be put back on in the exact place that they came off from as the are line bored and each one can be a little different, Ken.

 

[gsxr]

YES , CAPS HAVE A SPECIFIC MATING SURFACE AND MUST BE PUT IN THE SAME PLACE !

GO TO A RACE SHOP IF POSSIBLE !

HAVE THEM LINE BORE THE HEAD WITH CAPS TORQUED IN PLACE !

ALL METAL WILL HAVE TO BE REMOVED OR IT WILL PU MORE AND FAIL AGAIN.

 

[WesG]

Thanks for the reply's

All the caps went back in there original locations. think it may have gotten hung up on one of the dowel pins and tightened crooked (Like Skydog suggested). Any idea on the cost of line boring vs a new head?

 

[gsxr]

Line bore is $100. or less , the problem is to find a shop that has a boring bar small enough for the cam dia. Most line boring is crank mains , much larger dia.
A new idea , find the major rebuilder for cyl heads , all ohc heads get a line bore when rebuilt.

Call Cyl Head Centre in Montreal 800 361 4170
I think they have a shop in BC.

I can po # it if you need help ! 705 645 2247 glen

 

[WesG]

Thanks Glen. They referred me to another shop who said they may be able to repair it. I am going to take pics tomorrow in the am and send them via email so they can have a look.

Wes

 

[WesG]

Heres the pictures

Here pics of the damages. Did not see, but it appears that there is a crack on the one mating surface, so I beleive I will need a new head and intake camshaft. Lifters and exhaust side all look mint.

 

[Oak Hill]

Either it was to tight to start with or was not getting oil. You may be able to save the camshaft. If the cam is not grooved, you could polish it with some fine emery cloth to remove the aluminum. Then measure the journal and compare to specs. Good Luck!

 

[WesG]

The mating surface was not cracked. only appeared so in the photo's. It was actually a tool mark from picking some aluminum off the surface. Cam has some small grooves. Checked the cam runout and it is maybe 1 thou. Cannot see it being an oil issue as the supply is on that side and the surfaces furthur down from the supply are fine. Unless three oil ports all plugged off. Am left thinking that the tolerances were too tight. Don't beleive it was tq'd crooked as the first mating surface is in great shape, while the other three are ruined. Going to phone the dealer and the repair shop tomorrow.

 

[Anonymous]

Half my cam shaft bearings surfaces are looking like that ......

Maybe yamaha has some bad heads then!

I was not thinking it being a problem snice the motor only has like 500km or so, but now I am starting to wonder...

 

[TWIN TURBO]

Not saying for sure its your problem but many guys don't always follow break-in procedures so well and when you have a engine that has some tight spots as your's seems to have you start scuffing aluminum. Mic cam bores and camshaft after polishing them and see whats left, you should be able to save the head with alittle TLC, maybe the cam will need replacing if you can't polish all the roughness and be in spec. Good luck.

 

[WesG]

getting crazy

After taking the head and associated gear to several local mechanics, they all have said that it looks like the clearances were to tight. So I took it to the local dealer so they could have a look. No help. Couldn't say why it failed, and no warranty (was expecting that as it is turbo'd lol). Went to pick the head up and the dealer couldn't find it! Fuggen BS. drove approx. an hour to get it so I could ship it to alpine right away, and they can't find the gd thing. Going to have to deal out of town I suppose, sick of crap like this. muloth30th if half of your surfaces look like that, I'd be very concerned. Loosing riding time and dealing with bs is not my idea of fun! lmao.

 

[WesG]

Nice x-mas present

Alpine looked the head over. replacement needed for 3grand. not to mention its on backorder for 6 weeks. Have fun riding folks, I'll see you in spring, maybe