ahicks
TY 4 Stroke Master
OK, I get where you're headed moving the rear mount back. You're increasing the leverage available to collapse the torsion springs. We've visited this in the past with Edge skids - only we were going the other way in an attempt to stiffen.
Have you tried cycling the suspension with the rear springs removed (unhooked and swung to the rear)? Is there a chance this extension is stretching the track as it compresses?
What does this skid use to control coupling and transfer? Are there blocks on the rails, a limiter strap setup on the rear arm - or something else? Have you tried doing anything with this to delay coupling - that would net you some additional transfer as well.
What do you get for initial sit in/sag when you sit down on the sled?
Have you tried cycling the suspension with the rear springs removed (unhooked and swung to the rear)? Is there a chance this extension is stretching the track as it compresses?
What does this skid use to control coupling and transfer? Are there blocks on the rails, a limiter strap setup on the rear arm - or something else? Have you tried doing anything with this to delay coupling - that would net you some additional transfer as well.
What do you get for initial sit in/sag when you sit down on the sled?
copo427ss
TY 4 Stroke Junkie
uncleredbuck. you must maintain the 23 3/4" center to center between the front and rear bolt holes. with the tsl there has to be intial preload on them to work correctly. what skid did you use? and what year? it sounds like you have the wrong springs in there. al is onto something with the track. unload the springs and run the suspension through its travel to make sure the track is not binding the suspension.
UncleRedBuck
Veteran
my skid is out of a 2001 zr.
it worked find as a 121...but stretched to a 144 with rail extensions is where I am having the issue now.
the track binding does seem to make the most sense.
i will hafta unload the spring tension to see if that is the problem.
my next question is what if that is the problem?...how do I compensate for that and fix the problem?
I am running my track tension at what I would call perfect, as it does have enough sag and does not skip/ratchet. I actually thought it might be a little loose as the new track stretched I thought I might need to tighten it.
My sled is up North so the next time I see it I will try releasing the spring tension.
my sit-in sag is about 1/2 inch.....it squats/sags that little when I get on it. with gear I'm about 210lbs.
to the best of my knowledge there is no coupling on this skid, no transfer rod or adjustment strap on the rear arm..
it worked find as a 121...but stretched to a 144 with rail extensions is where I am having the issue now.
the track binding does seem to make the most sense.
i will hafta unload the spring tension to see if that is the problem.
my next question is what if that is the problem?...how do I compensate for that and fix the problem?
I am running my track tension at what I would call perfect, as it does have enough sag and does not skip/ratchet. I actually thought it might be a little loose as the new track stretched I thought I might need to tighten it.
My sled is up North so the next time I see it I will try releasing the spring tension.
my sit-in sag is about 1/2 inch.....it squats/sags that little when I get on it. with gear I'm about 210lbs.
to the best of my knowledge there is no coupling on this skid, no transfer rod or adjustment strap on the rear arm..
ahicks
TY 4 Stroke Master
You've got something going on there....
C'mon, 1/2" sit in? That thing has to be riding like a brick, no? You had more than that as a 121" didn't you?
This's going to keep me awake....
C'mon, 1/2" sit in? That thing has to be riding like a brick, no? You had more than that as a 121" didn't you?
This's going to keep me awake....
copo427ss
TY 4 Stroke Junkie
we need pics of your skid. im still trying to figure out why you have so much spring sticking out the front spring slide. in 02 they changed the design a little and made the springs smaller. are your shock torque rods in the middle hole? that might bind you up. is your rear arm up against the stop bar?
UncleRedBuck
Veteran
i had very little sit-in last year...maybe 1" or little more.
now as a 144 if I bounce up and down you could say it moves 3-4inches.
its not too bad/horrible.....but a bit brickish at times.
always had lots of spring on the front slide, when in a Cat, and as a 121 in the Yammie.
not sure of the position of the torque rods but assembled as it was before, interesting that my buddy mentioned the samething! (this is going to be my first stop upon inspection)
yes my rear arm is against the stop bar.
now as a 144 if I bounce up and down you could say it moves 3-4inches.
its not too bad/horrible.....but a bit brickish at times.
always had lots of spring on the front slide, when in a Cat, and as a 121 in the Yammie.
not sure of the position of the torque rods but assembled as it was before, interesting that my buddy mentioned the samething! (this is going to be my first stop upon inspection)
yes my rear arm is against the stop bar.
ahicks
TY 4 Stroke Master
<<<yes my rear arm is against the stop bar.>>>
That's your problem, you'll need to do something about that. The suspension is coupled full time like that. The rear cannot compress without taking the front with it - so you're effectively running on the spring rates of the front and rear combined, full time. Set up properly, that coupling shouldn't happen until just prior to bottoming....
I'd need pics to confirm, but thinking you're going to end up moving the mounting locations of the front or rear arms to give you a gap there. Copo may have more specific info.?
That's your problem, you'll need to do something about that. The suspension is coupled full time like that. The rear cannot compress without taking the front with it - so you're effectively running on the spring rates of the front and rear combined, full time. Set up properly, that coupling shouldn't happen until just prior to bottoming....
I'd need pics to confirm, but thinking you're going to end up moving the mounting locations of the front or rear arms to give you a gap there. Copo may have more specific info.?
UncleRedBuck
Veteran
really?
i thought it was supposed to be against the stop bar or at least really close! and when the rear arm compresses it moves away from the stop bar towards the rear. then this might be the problem.
when you remove all the weight from the sled you can actually see and hear it touch the stop bar.
i thought it was supposed to be against the stop bar or at least really close! and when the rear arm compresses it moves away from the stop bar towards the rear. then this might be the problem.
when you remove all the weight from the sled you can actually see and hear it touch the stop bar.
ahicks
TY 4 Stroke Master
UncleRedBuck said:
Oh crap. Thought this bar was in back.....
Back to square one. I still don't get it.
UncleRedBuck
Veteran
i can't test much until I see the sled again.
I'm going to go with one of two things.
it either has something to do with the torsion rods or the track binding.
i hope to know in the next week or so.
i will keep you posted
I'm going to go with one of two things.
it either has something to do with the torsion rods or the track binding.
i hope to know in the next week or so.
i will keep you posted
ahicks
TY 4 Stroke Master
UncleRedBuck said:
If you leave still scratching your head, snap some pics!
copo427ss
TY 4 Stroke Junkie
yes please pics would be good. question, are your springs sticking out 3 inches past your sliders when no weight is on the sled? also did you move your stop rod and lower scissor mount back to stock? i remember in our phone conversation this fall that you said you moved them back a hole to stiffen it up. what shocks are you running? i put race shocks in my skid and it was a completely different animal. you barely knew you were riding the same sled. except it was so stiff that unless i was trying to conquer 5 ft. ditches at 70mph. it rode like a sherman in groomed areas and low speed. got a buddy revalving them as i type this. maybe you need to revalve your shocks softer. i remember a coversation someone posted with ad bovine. im pretty sure he stated that the longer the rails the stiffer the ride was, contrary to thinkin that a longer track would be more leverage and softer. so quick recap. check to see if the track is binding on compression, check to make sure the torque rods at the top are in the middle hole. at full height your springs shouldnt be sticking out more than half an inch. if they are cut them down. did you change springs at all with the 121? different wire thickness, different short end degree? just a thought.
wes
wes
UncleRedBuck
Veteran
well boys, I give up and going for a ride as is.
I am running everything in stock form for a 2001 zr 800.
stock springs in correct mount locations and standard ACT shocks which worked fine as a 121.
I have been wasting riding time trying to find the problem and still coming up blank!
with the torsion springs rolled back out of the way I can get full suspension travel.....with no binding.
i double checked all mount locations to make sure they are correct and they all check out okay, twice.
i think I just need softer springs!!
gonna grease it and hit the trail.....see ya!!
thanks for all the help!!
I am running everything in stock form for a 2001 zr 800.
stock springs in correct mount locations and standard ACT shocks which worked fine as a 121.
I have been wasting riding time trying to find the problem and still coming up blank!
with the torsion springs rolled back out of the way I can get full suspension travel.....with no binding.
i double checked all mount locations to make sure they are correct and they all check out okay, twice.
i think I just need softer springs!!
gonna grease it and hit the trail.....see ya!!
thanks for all the help!!
copo427ss
TY 4 Stroke Junkie
update from 09-10 season
i ditched the stock gas shocks for a set of fox zero-x remote res shocks. had them revalved (twice) for the sled, weight and riding style. i also ditched the doo extros for now. this sled now stays with everything in the trails. it has the power and traction to hop over pretty much any waterhole, i can ditch bang for a 100 miles and still feel ok at the end. i think some minor setting adjustments and i will be good.
one thing i would say that i might change myself is to move the front hole up a 1/2". otherwise i have no regrets on this mod. this sled is now what it should have been suspension wise. i still think i need more power.
i ditched the stock gas shocks for a set of fox zero-x remote res shocks. had them revalved (twice) for the sled, weight and riding style. i also ditched the doo extros for now. this sled now stays with everything in the trails. it has the power and traction to hop over pretty much any waterhole, i can ditch bang for a 100 miles and still feel ok at the end. i think some minor setting adjustments and i will be good.
one thing i would say that i might change myself is to move the front hole up a 1/2". otherwise i have no regrets on this mod. this sled is now what it should have been suspension wise. i still think i need more power.
ahicks
TY 4 Stroke Master
Re: update from 09-10 season
OK, I'll bite. What's the thinking with that move?
copo427ss said:i ditched the stock gas shocks for a set of fox zero-x remote res shocks. had them revalved (twice) for the sled, weight and riding style. i also ditched the doo extros for now. this sled now stays with everything in the trails. it has the power and traction to hop over pretty much any waterhole, i can ditch bang for a 100 miles and still feel ok at the end. i think some minor setting adjustments and i will be good.
one thing i would say that i might change myself is to move the front hole up a 1/2". otherwise i have no regrets on this mod. this sled is now what it should have been suspension wise. i still think i need more power.
OK, I'll bite. What's the thinking with that move?
