y_guy
Expert
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Is there anything official on the chaincase cover replacement? My dealer seems to think this is all internet hype. I have heard of a few people getting them replaced by just asking their dealer.
welterracer
TY 4 Stroke God
IT IS NOT A RECALL....
You would have to pay to get it !
It is a REVISED COVER
You would have to pay to get it !
It is a REVISED COVER
YammiMoose
Expert
welterracer said:
My dealer told me you also need the case...
Can anyone verify this since I am thinking of buying one just for piece of mind....
Thanks,
-Moose
craze1cars
VIP Member
I'm guessing (let me make this VERY clear...I'm GUESSING in this post and offering MY OPINIONS, but I have no facts on the topic) that those few dealers who are replacing fully functional chaincases/covers on 06's under warranty at a customers request, are flat out LYING to Yamaha and claiming that some chaincase part has actually failed. I am quite certain these few "good" dealers are not paying for the parts and labor out of THEIR pocket.
IMO this whole chaincase thing is running on a very slippery slope...one dealer wants to satisfy their customer (his bread and butter) so they "fudge" a warranty claim at Yamaha's expense (and in the end making the price of future sleds and warranties increase for all of Yamaha's OTHER customers). But at least their customer is very happy and it's out of the dealer's hair. But then the customer goes on-line and brags about how great his dealer is...when in reality his dealer likely lied for him. And if Yamaha reads on this forum that XXX customer had his functional chaincase replaced "under warranty" by YYY dealer and decides to compare notes? YYY is at great risk getting caught by Yamaha...with possible ramifications to his business.
Yet here's another dealer wants to do honest business with Yamaha (his OTHER bread and butter) so he doesn't replace the part under warranty unless/until it's actually failed within the warranty period...so he turns his customer away. This may tick off his customer who heard on the internet that others were getting it done for free "under warranty."
However it's going down, it SEEMS inconsistent. But my knowledge is based 100% on "internet hype" so I freely acknowledge I do not KNOW if it is actually being handled inconsistently. If it is inconsistent, I don't like it. And a few things need to happen to prevent this kind of inconsistency.
1. Yamaha needs to take an official stand and communicate it...apparently in tech bulletins to dealers they have acknowledged that they redesigned certain parts in response to a problem. What they haven't apparently done is to tell ALL dealers AND customers EXACTLY how they will handle actual and/or potential problems...and hold firm on whatever they say they're going to do. If a dealer deviates from the spelled out plan, then that dealer gets disciplined.
2. Customers need to recognize that they own an 06 Yamaha...not an 07 Yamaha. Parts and models DO CHANGE in subsequent model years on a regular basis...usually for the better. And this is especially true of first-year models like the 06 Apex/Attak lineup. So if you want the better or more current parts for your sled, then YOU should pay the price of the upgraded part, or buy a new sled, or buy an extended warranty for your old sled...not Yamaha. If the part fails while under warranty, Yamaha buys 100%. If it fails after warranty expires, customer buys 100%. I really feel it should be that simple.
3. People on the internet need to realize that just because they have read a post about a problem, or a replacement "under warranty" by a certain dealer, or whatever...they are hearing it from ONE, or maybe a FEW people. As compared to the THOUSANDS of other owners who may have had the exact opposite experience, but never bothered to write it on the internet. We gotta remember that ONE person who had a chaincase problem is probably 3000% more likely to come here and start a post about chaincase issues. Then there's the other 3 people who had a problem and did a Google search to see if it's common...they are ALSO very likely to post in support of the original poster. Now all of a sudden everyone reads these 4 people's opinion and thinks that all Yamaha chaincases are junk. But what about the 500 other people who had trouble-free chaincases last year? They don't do Google searches on chaincases, and the few of us who stumble over a chaincase post are likely to completely ignore the post, because we have little or no reason to look for it or see it. So those 500 people write absolutely nothing.
I think MANY forget that just because something is written on this forum it is NOT necessarily true or common.
The internet has unfortunately made things such as this MUCH more complicated than it used to be, because people from all over the world can compare notes at the touch of a keyboard like never before. And it seems that so few internet users seem to understand that information obtained on the internet is often very good, but at times it is also very, VERY poor. And many times there is no way to tell the difference.
But the internet sure as heck isn't going away anytime soon...so Yamaha AND their customers need to adjust thier business practices and attitudes accordingly.
IMO this whole chaincase thing is running on a very slippery slope...one dealer wants to satisfy their customer (his bread and butter) so they "fudge" a warranty claim at Yamaha's expense (and in the end making the price of future sleds and warranties increase for all of Yamaha's OTHER customers). But at least their customer is very happy and it's out of the dealer's hair. But then the customer goes on-line and brags about how great his dealer is...when in reality his dealer likely lied for him. And if Yamaha reads on this forum that XXX customer had his functional chaincase replaced "under warranty" by YYY dealer and decides to compare notes? YYY is at great risk getting caught by Yamaha...with possible ramifications to his business.
Yet here's another dealer wants to do honest business with Yamaha (his OTHER bread and butter) so he doesn't replace the part under warranty unless/until it's actually failed within the warranty period...so he turns his customer away. This may tick off his customer who heard on the internet that others were getting it done for free "under warranty."
However it's going down, it SEEMS inconsistent. But my knowledge is based 100% on "internet hype" so I freely acknowledge I do not KNOW if it is actually being handled inconsistently. If it is inconsistent, I don't like it. And a few things need to happen to prevent this kind of inconsistency.
1. Yamaha needs to take an official stand and communicate it...apparently in tech bulletins to dealers they have acknowledged that they redesigned certain parts in response to a problem. What they haven't apparently done is to tell ALL dealers AND customers EXACTLY how they will handle actual and/or potential problems...and hold firm on whatever they say they're going to do. If a dealer deviates from the spelled out plan, then that dealer gets disciplined.
2. Customers need to recognize that they own an 06 Yamaha...not an 07 Yamaha. Parts and models DO CHANGE in subsequent model years on a regular basis...usually for the better. And this is especially true of first-year models like the 06 Apex/Attak lineup. So if you want the better or more current parts for your sled, then YOU should pay the price of the upgraded part, or buy a new sled, or buy an extended warranty for your old sled...not Yamaha. If the part fails while under warranty, Yamaha buys 100%. If it fails after warranty expires, customer buys 100%. I really feel it should be that simple.
3. People on the internet need to realize that just because they have read a post about a problem, or a replacement "under warranty" by a certain dealer, or whatever...they are hearing it from ONE, or maybe a FEW people. As compared to the THOUSANDS of other owners who may have had the exact opposite experience, but never bothered to write it on the internet. We gotta remember that ONE person who had a chaincase problem is probably 3000% more likely to come here and start a post about chaincase issues. Then there's the other 3 people who had a problem and did a Google search to see if it's common...they are ALSO very likely to post in support of the original poster. Now all of a sudden everyone reads these 4 people's opinion and thinks that all Yamaha chaincases are junk. But what about the 500 other people who had trouble-free chaincases last year? They don't do Google searches on chaincases, and the few of us who stumble over a chaincase post are likely to completely ignore the post, because we have little or no reason to look for it or see it. So those 500 people write absolutely nothing.
I think MANY forget that just because something is written on this forum it is NOT necessarily true or common.
The internet has unfortunately made things such as this MUCH more complicated than it used to be, because people from all over the world can compare notes at the touch of a keyboard like never before. And it seems that so few internet users seem to understand that information obtained on the internet is often very good, but at times it is also very, VERY poor. And many times there is no way to tell the difference.
But the internet sure as heck isn't going away anytime soon...so Yamaha AND their customers need to adjust thier business practices and attitudes accordingly.
ReX
TY 4 Stroke God
Weltracer is correct. It is not a recall.
Consider it a typical design improvement that any vehicle manufacturer would make from one year to another.
The 06 chaincase was the first 100% magnesium case and as a first year product, Yamaha made some changes for the second year.
Magnesium doesn't conduct heat as well as aluminum and if you ride the 06 chaincase very hard the heat build up makes the gasket somewhat prone to shifting - sometimes leading to the oil leaking out. It doesn't happen all the time, nor to all sleds. Yamaha made some minor tweaks to the chaincase cover for 07 to help keep the gasket from shifting.
Yamaha currently seems to be approving the installation of 07 covers on 06 sleds that specifically had the problem last season - if the dealer asks and the sled is still under warranty.
If you ride hard and want to minimize the risk of this happening it might be worth paying for the 07 cover (you might try asking your dealer if they can get it covered first).
Keep in mind we don't know for sure the 07 cover will completely eliminate the risk of the gasket shifting yet anyway.
If you want to totally minimize the risk and want the maximum chain life you're probably better off buying a used 05 chaincase assembly and have it installed. The 05 chaincase used an aluminum back half and a magnesium cover. They weigh more, but run cooler and are known to be very durable. I have been told the 05 chaincase is a direct bolt in replacement.
The 03/04 chaincases were all aluminum, but a different diameter brake rotor was used and the parking brake mounting is different (I don't believe they are a bolt in replacement).
As to the moral and ethical questions of whether Yamaha should give all 06 owners 07 covers, keep in mind design improvements happen all the time with all vehicles (and all products in general). You are not automatically provided free updates to cars when a manufacturer makes design changes from year to year.
Consider it a typical design improvement that any vehicle manufacturer would make from one year to another.
The 06 chaincase was the first 100% magnesium case and as a first year product, Yamaha made some changes for the second year.
Magnesium doesn't conduct heat as well as aluminum and if you ride the 06 chaincase very hard the heat build up makes the gasket somewhat prone to shifting - sometimes leading to the oil leaking out. It doesn't happen all the time, nor to all sleds. Yamaha made some minor tweaks to the chaincase cover for 07 to help keep the gasket from shifting.
Yamaha currently seems to be approving the installation of 07 covers on 06 sleds that specifically had the problem last season - if the dealer asks and the sled is still under warranty.
If you ride hard and want to minimize the risk of this happening it might be worth paying for the 07 cover (you might try asking your dealer if they can get it covered first).
Keep in mind we don't know for sure the 07 cover will completely eliminate the risk of the gasket shifting yet anyway.
If you want to totally minimize the risk and want the maximum chain life you're probably better off buying a used 05 chaincase assembly and have it installed. The 05 chaincase used an aluminum back half and a magnesium cover. They weigh more, but run cooler and are known to be very durable. I have been told the 05 chaincase is a direct bolt in replacement.
The 03/04 chaincases were all aluminum, but a different diameter brake rotor was used and the parking brake mounting is different (I don't believe they are a bolt in replacement).
As to the moral and ethical questions of whether Yamaha should give all 06 owners 07 covers, keep in mind design improvements happen all the time with all vehicles (and all products in general). You are not automatically provided free updates to cars when a manufacturer makes design changes from year to year.
y_guy
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well, i kind of disagree. If it is a fault on design the dealers and yamaha should be covering it. Why risk having a customer stuck 100 miles from home in the middle of nowhere.
What was just explained is that if you ride hard (why wouldn't I, that's what the RTX was marketed for) then why would a design problem not be covered. I paid close to 10 grand for this sled. I expect it to perform and not have to worry.
I expect and give lots of kudo's to those dealers fixing the problem to keep a customer happy.
as to the arguement on the car mfg's, well we are not talking apples to apples. It is also regulated a hell of alot more when safety is concerned. If you break down in your car, you have a much better chance of surviving. I have had recalls on my Jeep in the past years that seemed trivial. but it was still done on the mfg dime. I see no reason for Yamaha not to update. Besides i have taken my new truck in for minor things recently and it's been covered all the way down to the brakes.
What was just explained is that if you ride hard (why wouldn't I, that's what the RTX was marketed for) then why would a design problem not be covered. I paid close to 10 grand for this sled. I expect it to perform and not have to worry.
I expect and give lots of kudo's to those dealers fixing the problem to keep a customer happy.
as to the arguement on the car mfg's, well we are not talking apples to apples. It is also regulated a hell of alot more when safety is concerned. If you break down in your car, you have a much better chance of surviving. I have had recalls on my Jeep in the past years that seemed trivial. but it was still done on the mfg dime. I see no reason for Yamaha not to update. Besides i have taken my new truck in for minor things recently and it's been covered all the way down to the brakes.
welterracer
TY 4 Stroke God
Good post CRAZY1CARS..
I couldnt have said it better myself.. LOL
have you seen the prices of sleds today...??
YOu can hardly get a sled for under $10K
I couldnt have said it better myself.. LOL
have you seen the prices of sleds today...??
YOu can hardly get a sled for under $10K
nobody
Newbie
Thank you CRAZY1CARS, well said from us at yamaha!!!
yamadoo
Yamadoo is a snowmobile ' aholic'.
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Craze1cars,,,,,,,,,,,,,you think and type well, I couldn't agree more.
If we hear of a person with a problem, then 5 people say I think I have that also. THen that sled is junk and the manufacturer is evil.
Please don't over react, I want to be treated fairly and get a great product. BUt I have never heard of companies paying to bring past product up to new product performance standards--------- thats how they sell NEW product.
MY two cents
Merry Christmass
Yamadoo
If we hear of a person with a problem, then 5 people say I think I have that also. THen that sled is junk and the manufacturer is evil.
Please don't over react, I want to be treated fairly and get a great product. BUt I have never heard of companies paying to bring past product up to new product performance standards--------- thats how they sell NEW product.
MY two cents
Merry Christmass
Yamadoo
87gtNOS
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ReX said:
Please ReX, do tell me just how the gasket can shift? Have you had the chaincase cover off yet?
The gasket is a U channel. It cannot shift!
Seems that somehow they 'weep'. Perhaps from improper torque ont he mounting bolts after someone has had it opened up?
craze1cars
VIP Member
87gtNOS said:
This was my impression as well...while replacing my 07 track I'm looking at the most massive u-channel gasket I've ever seen on most ANYTHING and I'm thinking "how the heck could this thing EVER move?" Heck, even beyond the U-channel shape it has like 6 or 8 extra tabs on ANOTHER 90 degree angle, that gives it yet more locations to bite if it were to try shifting. I can't fathom it being physically possible for this gasket to become out of place in any way at all.
But I have no frame of reference as I'm new to Yami and haven't seen an 03 thru 06 disassembled. So for those of you who HAVE seen an 07 disassembled AND an older model, do those older models also have the same massive U-channel gasket? Or was that part of the completely new design for 07?
87gtNOS
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craze1cars said:
The 06 is the same "massive u-channel gasket"!! I have both chaincase covers...I will be comparing this weekend.
The only thing I can see allowing the leak is an improperly installed gasket or improper torqueing of the cover.
Iceman57
TY 4 Stroke Guru
I believe the problem is from very long high speed runs causing the housing and gasket to heat up. I believe the gasket gets soft and then gets sucked into the housing causing the leak. JMO.
SledFreak
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Which does happen in Northern Ontario. Lots if high speed runs.
machj
Extreme
running in nortern ontario is hard on this chaincase gaskets ive chained my gasket next day i ran at top speeds for along period of time and when we stoped we notice oil down at bottom of belly pan went back to the shop and pulled the panels off and you could see oil leaking at the bottom of the cover new cover is on its way
