porkchop
TY 4 Stroke Master
- Joined
- Aug 19, 2010
- Messages
- 1,219
- Reaction score
- 107
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- 788
- Location
- Central NY
- Country
- USA
- Snowmobile
- Nytro Nation
marpolsdofer said:
A guy I ride with once in awhile just got a leftover Z1 turbo, he's put over 1K miles on it this year and the gas has killed him. It's a pig.
It's fast as hell in a straight line- too much power in tight wooded areas (you need throttle control or it's getting treed) and when you get a 700#+ sled stuck, better be riding with a group of guys willing to pull out the tank
I'll stay with the little one that can (for the most part).
Ruckus
TY 4 Stroke Master
Ideally my Phazer needs to be lowered about 1.5", the ski stance somewhere between the MTX and FX and 30-40 more horsepower...and 50 lbs lighter wouldn't hurt, lol.
spike337
TY 4 Stroke Master
I'm sure if you bought a Nytro you'd get use to the added 'mass'. If you truely like your Yamaha, it sems logical to go that route, besides weight, an all around better built machine.
Once again, just my opinion, and a little vikoden talking, lol.
Once again, just my opinion, and a little vikoden talking, lol.
Ruckus
TY 4 Stroke Master
The salesman at the local dealer has an 09 xtx with a 1.75 track with less than 1000km (620 miles) for 9 grand. Not a bad deal for a new sled. I don't know if he purchased a 3 year warranty or not... Still, a couple grand on that sled could lighten it up a good bit and add some ponies too I bet.
marpolsdofer
TY 4 Stroke Guru
Well I just saw over most of Ruckus photos are in open areas.
Since I dont see the HCR (trail riders can now get this sled) or the Idea to see what cat has next year or Polaris.
I would get the Ski-Doo ( I never liked Ski-Doo, mostly because of the riders in my area).
Unless you like the idea of spend a few K trying to get the sled the way you want.
You probably right on being a hog. All my cats including the race sled get bad millage. The Race sled only gets 5-8 mpg and 32:1 oil mix, then I dont always run 91, most of time now +2 timing 100 octane.
Since I dont see the HCR (trail riders can now get this sled) or the Idea to see what cat has next year or Polaris.
I would get the Ski-Doo ( I never liked Ski-Doo, mostly because of the riders in my area).
Unless you like the idea of spend a few K trying to get the sled the way you want.
You probably right on being a hog. All my cats including the race sled get bad millage. The Race sled only gets 5-8 mpg and 32:1 oil mix, then I dont always run 91, most of time now +2 timing 100 octane.
spike337
TY 4 Stroke Master
I'll tell you another thing, like Marp said, i went on a week vacation the week after i bought my new sled and may have to file bankrupcy when i get my credit card gas bill! Holy cow! I miss the Phazers 17mpg. It DOES make a difference, PLUS oil! Now gas prices are going up again.
marpolsdofer
TY 4 Stroke Guru
spike337 said:
I used a few other things to cut on cost. If I decide not to run the 91 and mix, I dont mix. The mix was 110/91 (50/50) doing the math comes to 100.5. 110 is 7-8 a gal fingered mixing it was about 6 per gal. So I decided to get plane fuel 100 and skip the mixing and the price was under $5 a gal.
I get discount on Amsoil and opti-2. I chose to use opti-2 more. 1.8 oz to 1 gal of fuel and it does not matter the ratio. I am paying 70 cent for 1.8 oz packet list is almost $2. My dad has used it alot of the stuff the last five year and never has had a problem. I called opti and there are few other snowmobile racers that use it.
greenthumb
Pro
Ruckus said:
I am exactly where you are at; I even have come to the same conclusions and options. Where I live, newer 800 Summits and the like probably make up nearly half the sleds that I see and one can buy a decent XP for less than the cost of turbo kit for the phazer. The general consensus that I get is they offer the best bang for the buck for the local type of riding. The whole 2-stroke reliability issue seems to subjective. One guy goes through several engines in a season while the next gets years of reliable hard use.
Cost aside, a turbo seems like the easy solution, but it somewhat defeats the purpose of an economical and reliable 4 stroke in the first place IMO. I can only guess that parts for the Phazer engine are not cheap and I don't really want to spend half my time fixing it or getting the thing to run properly.
My experience with Nytros is limited to helping getting them unstuck and reviews I have read/watched. When yanking on a ski, they really do have a pig-esque feel to them. An article I read speaks at length at about how the relatively horizontal steering shaft angle has very negative effect towards a standing riding style, and it makes sense to me.
I feel an engine swap is the ideal solution, but to do it properly I think you would have to buy a complete Nytro/Apex and basically strip it. Power and N/A reliability in the chassis that we like. Again though, the cost would be the least logical route.
SnoXer18
Extreme
marpolsdofer said:
So you are mixing your fuel at about 70:1 and you feel that is adequate protection for a race sled?
Now for the original poster's question. I think the backcountry would be a great sled. I do think the engines are good engines, but I can't trust the quality of the fuel I'm putting in the tank when I fill up. I currently have a 2003 REV 440 race sled and a 2008 Phazer MTX. They both have their positives.
The 440 I can pound all day long, the shocks don't fade and it rarely bottoms out. The primary clutch is easily adjustable with screw in weights (can do on the side of the trail during tuning). The steering is light, there is some push but it corners flat. The 1 3/4" track hooks up well everywhere. On the newer ski-doos I really do think they have the 2 strokes running good and dependable, BUT they are running on the ragged edge of lean to meet emissions. Looking to the future, can you guarentee a good quality fuel supply EVERYWHERE you fill up. My 440 also has a very narrow powerband, it's either set-up right or it isn't. It wants to pull 8,400, and if it's only pulling 8,000 it can't get out of it's own way.
If I were able to purchase a new sled from any manufacturer and wasn't allowed to modify it, I woudln't. It sounds like we have similar expectations from a sled and there isn't one made that fits the bill. I want a 4 stroke becuase of the overall reliability of the engine, a deep lug track and wide skis, STORAGE, and descent fuel range. I don't know why ski-doo is scared to put their 1200 in a long track or a BCX. I also don't know why Yamaha doesn't offer a Nytro XTX with a 1.75 or 2" track option and mountain skis bolted the the MTX narrow front end. The XTX has the suspension it just needs the track under it. The XTX is only about 30 pounds more than the Phazer MTX dry.
I say take the Nytro XTX for a ride and see how you like it.
And as an afterthough I've been reading about the dissapointment surrounding the 2012 Yamaha's and the fact that people have to still fix the little problems themselves. They seem to forget about the XP shortfalls. They need upper and lower a-arm braces, clutch tower braces, toe-holds, running board support, and storage. Not to mention some have issues shredding $180 belts. And if the clutch tower brace doesn't fit it you NEED a clutch kit to try and get temps down, and them you still might need to float the secondary clutch before it's said and done.
At least with Yamaha all my tinkering is in the garage to fix small issues and not on the trail trying to get the sled to make it back to civilization before nightfall.
marpolsdofer
TY 4 Stroke Guru
SnoXer18 said:
There has been reports that riders pushing it to 50:1 on Amsoil and APV.
Opti is not a standard oil it mutates (the way I understand it).
My father has used it for the last 5 years since. I have used it in all my 2 stroke engines. Sleds, pocket bike, dirt bikes, weed eaters and what ever else had. Anyway we have never encountered problems. I did not want to use it in my sled but my dad convinced me. After running the red lake race I inspected everything and it seemed to be more well lubricated. After doing the calculation on list price coast if you went 32:1 on Opti-2 it would cost about $60. After talking to Opti mostly confirmed that as long as I dont run achohal I will be good, including to work with the power exhaust valves.
here is the sites with more info on it
http://www.opti2-4.com/html/opti-2.html
http://www.opti2-4.com/html/opti01.html
http://www.opti2-4.com/html/technology.html
http://www.opti2-4.com/html/testi01.html
UP bushman
VIP Member
Hey Ruckus I am in the works of making a bolt on 2" drop for the Phazer. I did it at the end of last year for one ride and the difference was quite noticable. The conditions were soft and mushing when the sled likes to tip pretty easy. The stability guys are looking for seemed to be there so I better get started on my R&D piece.
Try and ride what your looking for seems to be the best option for buying a sled. I have ridden an Nytro MTX 153" with Simmons Gnn 2 skis and did not like it. The Ski Doo XP Summit 144" 800 Power Tek handles well and power is good. Deffinitely stable up front but the flick like the Phazer is not there unless snow is deep than anything rolls good. IMO the Phazer has just the rite positioning for standing and sitting. If power is your main issue the change may be the best thing. A 144" or 151" track would have been a better option in the deep stuff good luck.
Try and ride what your looking for seems to be the best option for buying a sled. I have ridden an Nytro MTX 153" with Simmons Gnn 2 skis and did not like it. The Ski Doo XP Summit 144" 800 Power Tek handles well and power is good. Deffinitely stable up front but the flick like the Phazer is not there unless snow is deep than anything rolls good. IMO the Phazer has just the rite positioning for standing and sitting. If power is your main issue the change may be the best thing. A 144" or 151" track would have been a better option in the deep stuff good luck.
spike337
TY 4 Stroke Master
Marp, 50:1 is richer then 70:1. I ran 50:1 with AmsOil in my 440s for years. I know i could've ran it 60:1 easy, but why take the chance? Good oil i could see 70:1, but not on your typically tuned sled. I wonder what an E-Tec at maximum efficiency is?
marpolsdofer
TY 4 Stroke Guru
spike337 said:
Your miss read I said pushing key word I know they are using less.
I stated only Amsoil and APV. Opti is a complete different story complety different oil. Did even look at the sites, use of 6 time less oil?
Like I said we have around 5 years and more using this stuff and never had a 2 stoke blow that has used this. Do I trust it? absolutely!! I talked with then for several hours before I decided to chance it. If this stuff coast little over 3 times more then Amsoil and AVP race oil, then they must have something.
32 oz of Amsoil/APV=$10, 32 oz of Opti-$33. 200 miles on the sled and not a problem yet. This oil has been on the market for over 30 years and they are still in bis. Like said they have other RACERS that use this product and stand behind it. If it does blow, sled has to be rebuilt at the end of the season anyway. I learned that the crankshaft come apart in several peaces and is not solid.
marpolsdofer
TY 4 Stroke Guru
Oil has to be pre-mixed only can not be used with oil injection.
yzman
Expert
My buddie just got a 09 Nytro xtx with back country, fox floats and new MT9 skis from dealer. He paid just over 10 brand new . Nice sled tho i loves the topend power something the stock phazer lacks . Nitrous is always a good option too . Im gonna down grade my 50 hp shot to 30 hp. its Plenty .Ruckus said:
