Dalton New products.

[ROCKERDAN]

Got my secondary rollers today from T.D.

Thinking about getting the Dalton Black orange spring for the secondary. Would it be a smart move to get a Dalton Helix too to avoid the problem of all 3 Rollers not touching the stock Helix?? Or not??

What Dalton Helix is closest to the stock Yamaha Sidewinders secondary Helix? Really didn't want to change too many things right off the bat with the clutching. But also don't want any issues with coil bind and flat spotting rollers either.

Yes I would not run the stock cast....Dalton helix are works of art.

And they come with the angle on side, unless you want my brand new one? I can get one from Dale then.


Stock is 35, which Dale Sells...but most are liking the 33/35.

 

[DMCTurbo]

I was just wondering same thing.....Im gonna grab some 60ys weights and am considering just grabbing Allens stage 1 kit since its the 60ys weights plus pink spring for just abit more then weights alone....

I just hate stuff that comes in Kits as you never know rates/angles ect....so I was just gonna run the spring I have always liked blue dalton 53/133kg but sorta want to try Allens pink.

I wondered if it might just be a Yam (pk/pk/pk) which if you look at chart is 30/129kg. Maybe you can measure it(83.4mm) and compare free length, or just email Allen, I have been waiting for a reply from him myself.

Dan

I'm at work for 2 weeks so measuring it is out of the question for now. Single pink stripe on it, quite a bit shorter than the stocker. Not sure if they'll release the rates as it is in their "kit".

 

[DMCTurbo]

Yes I would not run the stock cast....Dalton helix are works of art.

And they come with the angle on side, unless you want my brand new one? I can get one from Dale then.


Stock is 35, which Dale Sells...but most are liking the 33/35.

View attachment 130612

32/38 might be a good one

 

[ROCKERDAN]

I'm at work for 2 weeks so measuring it is out of the question for now. Single pink stripe on it, quite a bit shorter than the stocker. Not sure if they'll release the rates as it is in their "kit".

yeah anything is alot shorter then stocker at 110mm....its why the stocker is no good IMO, too darn long.

I know Allen mentions engagement low, and I know what the TP kit spring is, and is also low engagement(35kg)

I would guess its either same as yam pink or close.

 

[ROCKERDAN]

32/38 might be a good one

For me that 32/36 keeps grabbing my eye and Id like to test that. But for starters Im sticking with the 33/35 which has had alot of testing this summer on the track. Seems the finish 35 is where we need to be, so id like to stay near that for full shift.

Dan

 

[WinterWolf]

Yes I would not run the stock cast....Dalton helix are works of art.

And they come with the angle on side, unless you want my brand new one? I can get one from Dale then.


Stock is 35, which Dale Sells...but most are liking the 33/35.

View attachment 130612

May sound like a dumb question, but why does the stock Helix from Yamaha have one number(35); but the Dalton Helix has two numbers.. 33/35?

What do these numbers mean/their significance?? If I get a Helix from Dale at Dalton, I don't want to lose any top end...so that's why I asked what was closest to stock Helix? Is this 33/35 Helix along with the black orange spring gonna alow full out shift/overdrive?? If these are dumb questions, I apologize...just trying to learn lol.

 

[DMCTurbo]

For me that 32/36 keeps grabbing my eye and Id like to test that. But for starters Im sticking with the 33/35 which has had alot of testing this summer on the track. Seems the finish 35 is where we need to be, so id like to stay near that for full shift.

Dan

Shagman says he gets better top end with the 39 finish

 

[snowbeast]

yeah anything is alot shorter then stocker at 110mm....its why the stocker is no good IMO, too darn long.

I know Allen mentions engagement low, and I know what the TP kit spring is, and is also low engagement(35kg)

I would guess its either same as yam pink or close.

Dan,engagement on allens pink is right at 3000 with his weights loaded to 80.9 grams and his straight 38 works good with it,as well.

 

[ROCKERDAN]

May sound like a dumb question, but why does the stock Helix from Yamaha have one number(35); but the Dalton Helix has two numbers.. 33/35?

What do these numbers mean/their significance?? If I get a Helix from Dale at Dalton, I don't want to lose any top end...so that's why I asked what was closest to stock Helix? Is this 33/35 Helix along with the black orange spring gonna alow full out shift/overdrive?? If these are dumb questions, I apologize...just trying to learn lol.

Sorry, I just assumed you were savvy in clutching Technic.

The Helix ramp is what the 3 rollers run on, and if you look at where they sit at idle, that is the first part of the ramp and the first angle you see in these choices from Dalton or others. Dalton measures Yam aftermarket helix same as Yam does, that may seem like a given but not all do this.

Now if you look at that helix ramp, you can see that when you go faster the Rollers run down the ramp when the clutch opens(secondary clutch) and where the rollers end up, is the 2nd angle given.

So, As the clutching increase in speed/rpms.....the rollers will go from a FLATTER angle, to a STEEPER angle....(because we are talking about a 33/35 which is what is known as a REVERSE angle helix) Because typically with most all sleds you want a helix that goes from steeper to shallower(a standard helix does this-Not reverse angle)

But for this Turbo, over the first season we feel that this sled needs more rpms down low, and on trail speeds...then more normal rpms up top....so we do this by using a flatter angle(lower) initially in the shift, then it rides down the ramp to a steeper angle which is more stock like(stock is 35). So top speeds rpms are more normal.

Lots more to all this, but that is a short way to understand how the helix angles play a roll in the shift. Sorta like a stick shift car when you want to take off fast, you rev it higher by leaving it in a lower gear longer, same with the bikes, when we hammer down we rev them high before we power shift into next gear....always faster. With a turbo now you have more rpms and higher spool, for more boost.

Secondary spring and its tension setting has a TON to do with the helix angles as well, so they sorta go hand in hand when setting them up....but the spring is where to start for sure, as its the one thing that is needing upgrading.

Dan

 

[ROCKERDAN]

Dan,engagement on allens pink is right at 3000 with his weights loaded to 80.9 grams and his straight 38 works good with it,as well.

Let me know if you ever have spring out, shoot me a total length Pete. ty

 

[ROCKERDAN]

Shagman says he gets better top end with the 39 finish

Very well could be, but Im all about curing the horrible trail-ability of the low end....We all know these things can go 130mph tuned with about any helix, LOL....Really want to see the bottom end get snappy. I really want to try 32/36.

For top end and max HP I notice many tune fall off over 8900 badly, so that also is key. With a steeper finish helix, he is likely setup to have it revving 88-8900(depending on tune) and he has a killer top end. Top end is more about RPMS and where they sit on long haul. Its the bottom and middle that is much more about tuning with helix and springs/weights.

But these new sec springs may very well go a long way to bottom end laziness....long wait til I can test though...ugh

 

[snowbeast]

May sound like a dumb question, but why does the stock Helix from Yamaha have one number(35); but the Dalton Helix has two numbers.. 33/35?

What do these numbers mean/their significance?? If I get a Helix from Dale at Dalton, I don't want to lose any top end...so that's why I asked what was closest to stock Helix? Is this 33/35 Helix along with the black orange spring gonna alow full out shift/overdrive?? If these are dumb questions, I apologize...just trying to learn lol.

That is a Dalton reverse angle helix,it is same finish as stock 35 but starts out fast at 33,than translates to stock finish rate,and the stock secondary spring seems to tight,at 5 twists,and close togeather,may coilbind more in stock cast helix.So I don't see how you would lose any top end speed,with same finish rate helix,unless you wrapped it to tight say 80 or 90 degrees of twist. And dales new black orange spring was made because some of us from last year wanted a secondary spring that would give more side force and not coilbind,bingo,this should be it.

 

[snowbeast]

Let me know if you ever have spring out, shoot me a total length Pete. ty

Ok I will do that for you brother,you have added so much great info over the years,anytime I can help you out I will.

 

[DMCTurbo]

Very well could be, but Im all about curing the horrible trail-ability of the low end....We all know these things can go 130mph tuned with about any helix, LOL....Really want to see the bottom end get snappy. I really want to try 32/36.

For top end and max HP I notice many tune fall off over 8900 badly, so that also is key. With a steeper finish helix, he is likely setup to have it revving 88-8900(depending on tune) and he has a killer top end. Top end is more about RPMS and where they sit on long haul. Its the bottom and middle that is much more about tuning with helix and springs/weights.

But these new sec springs may very well go a long way to bottom end laziness....long wait til I can test though...ugh

So I already have a 35/39 dalton, you have a 33/35 dalton, we should each buy another of different angles and get together for a test and tune session this winter.

 

[ROCKERDAN]

So I already have a 35/39 dalton, you have a 33/35 dalton, we should each buy another of different angles and get together for a test and tune session this winter.

I was wondering where your town is, I was about to google it....I dont think you are near Muskoka(central Ont) Are you?

lol


I think a few of us should do similar...I spend so much on clutch parts and Dale always helps me out but man it adds up....We should all buy diff items and test, and then we will not all be buying same parts..haha

This yr for me will be better then ever for testing, as I should have access to Toms SW and he also has a NEW 18 coming too, and mine....so we will be able to really compare things more then ever...Otherwise all the rest are 2s boys, and noone local to test with.

Dan