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diving deeper into belt issues part2

ROCKERDAN said:
My dealer has told me his cats basically don't blow belts while winders do.

HCS shows barely any posts on belts all season. While here TY was littered with posts on belts almost exclusively.

So lets go over the differences again......

-Gearing
-Belt
-Primary
-Secondary
-J-shaft

Anything else different?

It seems like its not just one thing that can improve winder belt life compared directly to the cat. I still think its a combination of things, mostly being gearing and belt.

Its not a heat issue IMO, as the cat runs far warmer clutching/belts then winders. That is one thing that had been talked about early on, cooler setup was always the winder. If your winder runs hot clutches then get that offset checked.

Has anyone simply geared down to 24/50 with a winder and improved belt life? We know many of the 19 winders will now have 24/50 gearing, so this will be something to watch, as it seems YAM engineers have taken this approach now. I planned to go back to stock 21/41 gearing but wonder if I should go further?

As for belts....Can we somehow mod our setup to accept a wider belt? Or a cat belt?

I just am not sure the heat or chassie theory is the answer, as there seem to be many cats out there with good belt life, for sure on stock tune and even some with bigger tunes. I agree with the big tunes we will always have shortened belt life, but it would be nice to not ride these sleds and worry about it constantly when you hit the flipper.

Dan
Click to expand...

I have seen Cats with blown belts in our area. They even ride with Three spare belts in their large tunnel bag.
It's not just an issue on the Yamaha sleds, cat riders don't complain about it because they are accustom to it.
Yamaha riders don't expect to have belt issues so when they do we hear about it.
 

Beerman said:
We never took an actual measurement of parallel on the ‘17 but Steve said it looked slightly off, but was facing forward, the opposite of what you typically see. The ‘18 is definitely parallel, I measured from both the fixed and moveable sheaves and the difference from the front of the clutch to the rear was consistent.

C-C on the ‘17 was 262.5mm with an offset of 59mm. The ‘18 C-C is about 262 but I need to measure more closely and can do that tonight. Offset is 60mm with no shims. I’ll have to have the primary machined this Summer so I can get the offset lower, but from the looks of it 58mm will be the least I can get. I’m pretty sure you can’t mil more than 2.5mm off the shaft or the moveable will make contact.
Click to expand...
Confirmed that C-C is 262mm-263mm on this '18. That's eyeballing center to center from both bolts in the shafts. Unfortunately I don't have a better way/tool to be more precise than that. With this C-C I "should" be shooting for an offset of 57mm-58mm. That will take a trip to a machine shop that I need to find.
 
ART, do you want me to send you my box of clutch tools?

IMG_1051.jpg
 
Just noticed some thing interesting while I was re doing a chain case on a SW and had to replace the jackshaft bearing. On the secondary side Yamaha does not use a bearing retainer clip to hold the Jack shaft bearing in the bearing housing while cat does.

Obviously I don' have a sample of Winders to check but perhaps the bearing isn' seated the same on all of them and one would think that the bearing possibly could walk over time outwards. It does have a circlip on the Jack shaft but first thoughts are it may be more solid with the bearing seated in the housing and secured.

Just throwing it out there.
 
I went ahead of Yamaha and build my own 2019 XTX LE out of a 2018 High Country 9000. Team clutchs run very high temps. Belt is wider and longer, probably a patch on the problem. For me with stock set-up, first lasted no more than 600mi. Second belt (PowerTrail tuned with TD SQ muffler, secondary moved 1/8" inward and Dalton weight) lasted 800mi.
Just brought Yami clutches, jackshaft, gears and chain. Will see next winter. Hated the way theses Teams has too much helix, no feeling, no backshifting, no response at all, and very high temps. The fact is that I ran wide open for lot of miles at 107mph top of gears without never blowing a belt. Two belts I blowed was 60-80% throttle around 55mph.
 
Incredible friction in the Team primary from the sliders.
 
1049triple said:
I went ahead of Yamaha and build my own 2019 XTX LE out of a 2018 High Country 9000. Team clutchs run very high temps. Belt is wider and longer, probably a patch on the problem. For me with stock set-up, first lasted no more than 600mi. Second belt (PowerTrail tuned with TD SQ muffler, secondary moved 1/8" inward and Dalton weight) lasted 800mi.
Just brought Yami clutches, jackshaft, gears and chain. Will see next winter. Hated the way theses Teams has too much helix, no feeling, no backshifting, no response at all, and very high temps. The fact is that I ran wide open for lot of miles at 107mph top of gears without never blowing a belt. Two belts I blowed was 60-80% throttle around 55mph.
Click to expand...


What is your offset ?
 
Dont know. The clutch been alined with the BOSS tool by the tuner who did the flash.
 
KnappAttack said:
That will work good Art till the first belt blows and wipes it all out. Bring duct tape in the trunk for when that happens.
Click to expand...

That's exactly what I do. There is actually a blue duct tape that matches damn close, although I've only blown one belt that was my fault testing a TP secondary spring wrapped too tight. I'm paranoid though coming from turbo cats since 2012. It currently has duct tape on it with some frogskin worked in for a vent which can be replaced trail side.
 
Do you guys blow belts at top speed or even cruising ?
 
I only blew them at WOT after doing a WOT run, so it got hot. So far, I've had much better success with Dalton weights and springs, but switching out the TPI after only one trip, the TPI pulled like a freight train to 125 mph but I went through 2 Gates and 1 8JP belts in 600 miles. Anecdotally, I had 1400 miles on a single 8JP the year before with Dalton 70's and stock springs - but only EcoTrail to be fair.

After I figure out a durable combo this year with Dalton components I want to go back to the HH's and see what works for me. I say "for me" because a lot of guys are having great success with them and I do think they pull harder. This coming season I have CoPiTrail with the high-speed GPS perf logging, so I can do quantifiable tests.
 
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