drag raced F1000

[dirkdiggler]

damn thats a lot of studs...going to kill your top end...well unless your on the nos...

I respectfully disagree with you guys and here's why. The 121 inch rip saw weighs 36 pounds. the 144 inch Ripsaw weighs 45 pounds. that said the XTX still shows better MPH then the 121 shows. Which proves Rotating mass isn't always a factor in MPH. There are other factors that go into why one sled achieves X mph and another sleds achleves Y mph.

The XTX is faster because of approach angle. So weight of the track from a 121 to a 144 is not the fcator here. Put 230 studs in any sled and it will slow it down, period. Put 230 studs in an XTX and it will fall on it's face... He's way over studded for that sled.

Your wrong. I've taken a sled from 121 to 136 which adds weight to the track and saw no MPH loss. You are just plain wrong sorry. The only place he's being hurt by the studs is out of the hole due to the fact it takes Torque to move the weight out of the hole.

By your theory if I changed the attack angle of the 121 to match the XTX I should be faster top end then an XTX simply because the XTX track is 9 pounds heavier then the 121 track. This theory is wrong. All the attack angle does is hold the 121 back from achieving the MAX MPH the Nytro is capable of as a result of the HOP it produces. I can prove this to you. Last year I could only see at 106 MPH with a stock weight and 102 MPH with a Drag and Fly weight. this year I'm seeing 110 MPH with the Drag and Flys. What did I do I increased the hp by adding Filters and a Header.

 

[SledFreak]

So you are trying to tell me that a sled with 96 studs is not going to be faster then a sled with 230?

 

[SledFreak]

damn thats a lot of studs...going to kill your top end...well unless your on the nos...

I respectfully disagree with you guys and here's why. The 121 inch rip saw weighs 36 pounds. the 144 inch Ripsaw weighs 45 pounds. that said the XTX still shows better MPH then the 121 shows. Which proves Rotating mass isn't always a factor in MPH. There are other factors that go into why one sled achieves X mph and another sleds achleves Y mph.

The XTX is faster because of approach angle. So weight of the track from a 121 to a 144 is not the fcator here. Put 230 studs in any sled and it will slow it down, period. Put 230 studs in an XTX and it will fall on it's face... He's way over studded for that sled.

Your wrong. I've taken a sled from 121 to 136 which adds weight to the track and saw no MPH loss. You are just plain wrong sorry. The only place he's being hurt by the studs is out of the hole due to the fact it takes Torque to move the weight out of the hole.

So him drag racing and winning against the fusion 900,800R, F1000 and Thundercat had nothing to do with the 230 studs. I would say yes that it did. The torque of his motor had enough to pull him out of the hole well, but the hp it lost to to amount of mass will kill his top end. Dirk, he only raced 700ft.

 

[dirkdiggler]

So you are trying to tell me that a sled with 96 studs is not going to be faster then a sled with 230?

So him drag racing and winning against the fusion 900,800R, F1000 and Thundercat had nothing to do with the 230 studs. I would say yes that it did. The torque of his motor had enough to pull him out of the hole well, but the hp it lost to to amount of mass will kill his top end. Dirk, he only raced 700ft.[/quote]


I believe the limiting factor in top speed is HP verses resistance and the limiting factor in acceleration is Torque verses weigh. The More HP you have the more MPH you can produce and the More Torque you have the quicker you can accelerate.

 

[SledFreak]

So you are trying to tell me that a sled with 96 studs is not going to be faster then a sled with 230?

So him drag racing and winning against the fusion 900,800R, F1000 and Thundercat had nothing to do with the 230 studs. I would say yes that it did. The torque of his motor had enough to pull him out of the hole well, but the hp it lost to to amount of mass will kill his top end. Dirk, he only raced 700ft.

I believe the limiting factor in top speed is HP verses resistance and the limiting factor in acceleration is Torque verses weigh. So why is an XTX faster, then the 121 with the motors being the same"? Is it because of less resistance to the shallower approach angle? The More HP you have the more MPH you can produce and the More Torque you have the quicker you can accelerate. This I agree.[/quote]

 

[arteeex]

You've got it backwards. Horsepower is a measure of how fast the torque can be applied and does not make anything move. It is the first derivative of the torque curve (really the equation that defines the torque curve). Torque by definition is work. Torque makes things move. To the extent that HP and torque are related, horsepower will determine the acceleration possible and torque will determine the maximum speed.

Very simply, if you had 2 motors with equal HP but one had twice the torque at the same RPM you could expect them to accelerate at the same rate. However the one with greater torque will have a higher top end due to the additional capacity to do work.

 

[dirkdiggler]

So you are trying to tell me that a sled with 96 studs is not going to be faster then a sled with 230?

So him drag racing and winning against the fusion 900,800R, F1000 and Thundercat had nothing to do with the 230 studs. I would say yes that it did. The torque of his motor had enough to pull him out of the hole well, but the hp it lost to to amount of mass will kill his top end. Dirk, he only raced 700ft.

I believe the limiting factor in top speed is HP verses resistance and the limiting factor in acceleration is Torque verses weigh. So why is an XTX faster, then the 121"? Is it because of less resistance to the shallower approach angle? The More HP you have the more MPH you can produce and the More Torque you have the quicker you can accelerate. This I agree.

[/quote]



You proved my point for me. The limiting factor isn't weight of the track in the case. Both sleds make the same HP and Torque however the unit with the heavier track shows higher MPH. The limiting factor is the attack angle of the track not the weights of the tracks.

 

[SledFreak]

So you are trying to tell me that a sled with 96 studs is not going to be faster then a sled with 230?

So him drag racing and winning against the fusion 900,800R, F1000 and Thundercat had nothing to do with the 230 studs. I would say yes that it did. The torque of his motor had enough to pull him out of the hole well, but the hp it lost to to amount of mass will kill his top end. Dirk, he only raced 700ft.

I believe the limiting factor in top speed is HP verses resistance and the limiting factor in acceleration is Torque verses weigh. So why is an XTX faster, then the 121"? Is it because of less resistance to the shallower approach angle? The More HP you have the more MPH you can produce and the More Torque you have the quicker you can accelerate. This I agree.

You proved my point for me. The limiting factor isn't weight of the track in the case. Both sleds make the same HP and Torque however the unit with the heavier track shows higher MPH. The limiting factor is the attack angle of the track not the weights of the tracks.[/quote]

What point? Forget about resitance for a minute and approach angle. Two sleds with the same motor one with 200 studs will have less top end, then a sled with no studs, correct? We are talking about two different things that can effect top end here. One is the amount of studs (weight) and the resistenace (increased approach angle) of the rear suspension, which in both cases would be holding back the sled.

 

[dirkdiggler]

You've got it backwards. Horsepower is a measure of how fast the torque can be applied and does not make anything move. It is the first derivative of the torque curve (really the equation that defines the torque curve). Torque by definition is work. Torque makes things move. To the extent that HP and torque are related, horsepower will determine the acceleration possible and torque will determine the maximum speed.

Very simply, if you had 2 motors with equal HP but one had twice the torque at the same RPM you could expect them to accelerate at the same rate. However the one with greater torque will have a higher top end due to the additional capacity to do work.

That's what I'm saying Torque makes you move. I'm not trying to relate HP to torque.

Your second paragraph makes no sense is literal terms. If you have Two motors with the idetical design and one shows Higher torque it should in theory show higher HP as well. This is why all sleds aren't created equal. Some sleds have better motors and some are dogs.

 

[arteeex]

If you're going to have an argument in physics and engineering, please becareful to use primary units of mass, length and time to justify your statments. Engineers on the site may be watching.

 

[dirkdiggler]

What point? Forget about resitance for a minute and approach angle. Two sleds with the same motor one with 200 studs will have less top end, then a sled with no studs, correct? We are talking about two different things that can effect top end here. One is the amount of studs (weight) and the resistenace (increased approach angle) of the rear suspension, which in both cases would be holding back the sled.

No the sled with 200 studs will not have more Top end and this is why I say that. Lets say that this sled is a 121 now I stretched it to a 144. I just added 10 pounds to the track, this sled should still have the same top end . I've seen it this scenario with my own two eyes. I stretched my 2003 RX-1 to 136. the track was heavier and I used more studs. Guess what the top end was identical to when it was a 121 with less studs.

The only thing that makes the XTX faster on top end is the attach angle. If the 121 had the same attack angle it would be as fast as the XTX.

by your theory the 121 would be faster since the 144 track is 10 pounds heavier then the 121 track. I don't believe this to be true.

 

[arteeex]

That's what I'm saying Torque makes you move. I'm not trying to relate HP to torque.

Your second paragraph makes no sense is literal terms. If you have Two motors with the identical design and one shows Higher torque it should in theory show higher HP as well.

I certainly used an idealization to describe the scenario. However, more torque does not necessarily imply more horsepower. Being the first derivative it is a rate based function. A steep torque curve implies greater horsepower, where a shallow torque curve implies lower horsepower. But, both torque curves can reach the same peak level. Think of a big diesel engine, it makes big torque but not usually big (in comparison) horsepower.

 

[dirkdiggler]

That's what I'm saying Torque makes you move. I'm not trying to relate HP to torque.

Your second paragraph makes no sense is literal terms. If you have Two motors with the identical design and one shows Higher torque it should in theory show higher HP as well.

I certainly used an idealization to describe the scenario. However, more torque does not necessarily imply more horsepower. Being the first derivative it is a rate based function. A steep torque curve implies greater horsepower, where a shallow torque curve implies lower horsepower. But, both torque curves can reach the same peak level. Think of a big diesel engine, it makes big torque but not usually big (in comparison) horsepower.

I understand you weren't speaking in literal terms. I've dyno'ed lots of sleds. I've seen sleds with the same torque peak make different peak HP. that is a function of Porting, Pipe design, timing curve, Many factors.

 

[arteeex]

Strictly speaking it is not a function of porting or pipe design timing or other factors. It is a function of the physics involved. The things you listed allow a change in the operating environment but not the physics. To get more horsepower only need to spin the motor up faster (increase the rate at which work is being done). To get more torque you need push on the piston harder (do more work). In general it's easier to get more horsepower than it is to get more torque. You can feel the increase in horsepower because the motor is delivering the available torque faster and that's what gets people excited.

Where the peak measurements occur in the RPM range is effected by the environment created with porting, pipes etc.

 

[**sj**]

in other words even at the same horsepower but higher rpms equals higher ground speed