Environment - 4 > 2

[Laban]

Reliability if of course probably the biggest problem for 2 stroke engines but there are other problems. Ski Doo likes to talk about their SDI engines and that they're just as environmental friendly as the 4-strokes, but the truth is a bit different:

http://forum.snowrider.se/uploads/20070 ... 07_600.JPG

The SDI has pretty good CO emissions compared to the other twostrokes (and the RS, which has rather high CO emissions for a four-stroke) but it's not even close when it comes to HC. To the RS's defense, it's a carburated engine and those will soon be extinct.

Anyway, how about if we add a 3-way catalytic converted to the four-stroke (impossible on a two-stroke) ? Well, take another 90% off from the numbers in the chart. Add then the fact that the EPA-2012 rules are rather weak:

http://www.earthjustice.org/news/press/ ... cient.html

Yet the agency's 2002 snowmobile standards -- which will not be fully implemented until 2012 -- do not even require manufacturers to use technology that is already available. In fact, the standards allow nearly one-third of the snowmobiles manufactured in 2012 to be almost as dirty and noisy as those being made today

Now, let's look at the Euro 3 standards which have been in place since 2001. We'll take the nr's for the MC category since they have close to the same engines afa performance/cc/weight goes:

Euro 3 - 2001 - greater than 50cc: 4 stroke.

CO: 67
HC: 68
NO: 13

EPA 2012:

HC: 75
HC+NO: N/A (not regulated)
CO: 200

Looser rules 11 years later !!! No wonder that the government thinks the EPA 2012 rules are somewhat of a joke.

 

[Philscbx]

Quote:

Yet the agency's 2002 snowmobile standards -- which will not be fully implemented until 2012 --
do not even require manufacturers to use technology that is already available.
-----------------------------------------------------------------
Yeah, just put the agency on a trail behind a fleet of 2 strokes, and the rules would change over night.

 

[number1kyster]

you will be shut tup when they come out wit he-tec's in sleds. Its going to change the industry as far as 2 stroke emmisions, but i cant picture ski-doo making an e-tec sled that is reliable.

 

[DoktorC]

e-tec is still brp marketing at it's finest...lost oil is lost oil. 4-strokes still aren't using available emmision scrubbing technology (catcons). The 2stoke will never be as clean as long as it burns oil. The etec stuff is hilarious..basically telling half the story as the whole truth.

 

[Laban]

you will be shut tup when they come out wit he-tec's in sleds. Its going to change the industry as far as 2 stroke emmisions, but i cant picture ski-doo making an e-tec sled that is reliable.

E-Tec doesn't allow a 2 stroke to use a 3-way catalytic converter which means that it will never come close to the emissions from a 4-stroke with a 3-way cc (90% lower emissions then from a 4-stroke without cc). And 3-way cat's are old and cheap technology.

 

[number1kyster]

do they rob power? I have buddy who is die hard skidoo and he always talks about how the etec is gonna be way better than 4 strokes..... Also will a 3 way cat improve mileage?

 

[Laban]

All Yamaha R1's sold in Europe (not sure about US) have 3-way cats and they have 170+hp (probably closer to 160 when measured the way it's done on snowmobiles). So maybe they do rob power, but i'm guessing that it's negliable.

I have buddy who is die hard skidoo and he always talks about how the etec is gonna be way better than 4 strokes

Sure, a E-Tec can perhaps be better (emissions) then a 4-stroke with no cc. With a 3-way cat ? Not even close. And as i said, you can't put a 3-way cc even on a E-Tec.

Also will a 3 way cat improve mileage?

Read something about that recently, can't find the link. I doubt that we would see any huge differences though. And Yamaha has been using them on their bikes for quite a few years so i doubt that they would have to sacrifice anything other then the additional cost. Or at least very little.

 

[06RSRAGE]

Read this article in Snowtech. The 2 strokes still have a ways to go.

http://snowtechmagazine.com/?p=268

 

[number1kyster]

Yes they do have a long way to go!

 

[Phazed-Coug]

..

Yes they do have a long way to go!

Not too far, just two more strokes and they'll be there..

From a greenie standpoint, they have less to yell about
when sleds are quieter and smell less.

Got a great comment the other day, from a couple that
"got stuck in their Subaru" trying to get out of the
riding area(yes they drove up the access road) I got them
unstuck.

They said they loved the fact that my sled was quieter
and didn't smell like the other ones...
Hard to believe with my supertrapp they thought it was
quieter.

 

[06RSRAGE]

Check this one out. Even the greenies are liking the 4 strokes.



http://www.northstar.sierraclub.org/cam ... sheet.html