Exhaust Gasket change procedure question

[AttakDog]

I think now its best to get the donut clamps as tight as possible, without damaging the expensive titanium Y-Pipes and let the flex pipe at the head do the job of flexing/bending as designed. Got Apex had some good points that got me thinking about the flexing/bending and IMO the head pipes should be doing this job, not the donut gasket/Ypipe! I am glad I have had some downtime to try to figure this one out and all these heads working together helps too! 2 sleds tore down in my pole barn, 1 cat waiting for chaincase seals, and my 04 GMC crew transfer case is out for rebuild. Full plate of work and alot of $

 

[nate007]

Has anybody considered building a new Y-pipe? You would think there would be somebody (Excell, Bender, Hauck...) that could make an aftermarket header and stainless Y-pipe setup for much less than factory stuff???
I think the key would be to have it ceramic coated, and possibly try to build it with less pieces!
When I put my aftermartket pipes on, it came with ne donuts, but they were tough to get on without distorting them, but just pulling the pipes off is definately an easier way to change them. I tried both ways, donughts IN the exhaust pipse first or donughts ON the Y-pipes, and I didn't find either to be easier.

 

[ReX]

Has anybody considered building a new Y-pipe? You would think there would be somebody (Excell, Bender, Hauck...) that could make an aftermarket header and stainless Y-pipe setup for much less than factory stuff???
I think the key would be to have it ceramic coated, and possibly try to build it with less pieces!
When I put my aftermartket pipes on, it came with ne donuts, but they were tough to get on without distorting them, but just pulling the pipes off is definately an easier way to change them. I tried both ways, donughts IN the exhaust pipse first or donughts ON the Y-pipes, and I didn't find either to be easier.

When you changed to the aftermarket exhaust it came with header donuts?

Are you sure you aren't talking about the mid-pipe gaskets?

The ones we are talking about here are about 5" behind the engine in the very back of the engine compartment (under the very front of the tank) and they seal the connection between the flex headers and the y-pipes.

I'm not sure if ceramic coating woud make any difference. The source of the problem is the donuts breaking down in the heat/vibration/pipe movement. Once the donuts blow out their filler material, the clamps become loose. Once the clamps are loose, they rattle arround and wear down the y-pipe, eventually putting holes in them.

A thicker pipe would probably handle more time with a rattling clamp before wearing through, but the real solution would be to somehow stop the donuts from breaking down or to replace the donuts with something more robust.

One thing I was thinking about last night is some sort of rigid, metal to metal connection instead of the donuts. The headers already have a significant flex coupler build into them so the donuts don't need to "flex" once clamped up tight.

Even a traditional exhaust ID/OD joint with a basic clamp would probably be an option. It might have a tendancy to have a very small leak (just like your typical exhaust does), but if small enough a very minor leak that doesn't get worse over time/miles would be much better than something that fails outright.

 

[ReX]

Re: exhaust removal

You guys have some good info here about a subject that we are on our own to solve.

The consensus seems to be that heat is the culprit. If that is true, why were ReX's 2 donuts still good. I wonder if the clamps were not installed properly at the factory. I am going to grind mine also. I am also leaning toward a bead of RTV in the clamp, but not on the donut.

I should be getting my donuts today from Port.

The 2 "good" donuts, while still intact were showing signs of loosing the filler material too. It was only a matter of time before they also failed.

One thing that concerns me with using RTV is it will make the connection appear tight, filling up any clearance between the clamp and the pipes. If the RTV breaks down fairly quickly you will be left with a potentially loose clamp and this will allow the donuts to fail much quicker.

Keep in mind that even Ultra Copper RTV is only rated for 600°F continuous or 700°F intermittantly. The temperature of these pipes when running wide open is well over 1000°F.

 

[GotJuice]

Has anybody considered building a new Y-pipe? You would think there would be somebody (Excell, Bender, Hauck...) that could make an aftermarket header and stainless Y-pipe setup for much less than factory stuff???
I think the key would be to have it ceramic coated, and possibly try to build it with less pieces!
When I put my aftermartket pipes on, it came with ne donuts, but they were tough to get on without distorting them, but just pulling the pipes off is definately an easier way to change them. I tried both ways, donughts IN the exhaust pipse first or donughts ON the Y-pipes, and I didn't find either to be easier.

When you changed to the aftermarket exhaust it came with header donuts?

Are you sure you aren't talking about the mid-pipe gaskets?

The ones we are talking about here are about 5" behind the engine in the very back of the engine compartment (under the very front of the tank) and they seal the connection between the flex headers and the y-pipes.

I'm not sure if ceramic coating woud make any difference. The source of the problem is the donuts breaking down in the heat/vibration/pipe movement. Once the donuts blow out their filler material, the clamps become loose. Once the clamps are loose, they rattle arround and wear down the y-pipe, eventually putting holes in them.

A thicker pipe would probably handle more time with a rattling clamp before wearing through, but the real solution would be to somehow stop the donuts from breaking down or to replace the donuts with something more robust.

One thing I was thinking about last night is some sort of rigid, metal to metal connection instead of the donuts. The headers already have a significant flex coupler build into them so the donuts don't need to "flex" once clamped up tight.

Even a traditional exhaust ID/OD joint with a basic clamp would probably be an option. It might have a tendancy to have a very small leak (just like your typical exhaust does), but if small enough a very minor leak that doesn't get worse over time/miles would be much better than something that fails outright.

>>>
Exactly, a different joint or copper donut gaskets that will conform to each female side and not blow out. Wht not go back to stainless Y-pipes that are thivker and cheaper I'm sure?

 

[rx1pat]

Replaced broken y pipe and donuts on the right side of my 06 apex, 6000 miles. Had the dealer do the job. Yamaha agreed to warranty the parts even though the sled was out of warranty. I only had to pay for the labor. Sled sounded good after the first few rides, now it sounds like a leak may be starting again. Not happy about this. 12,000 miles on my 03 rx-1 no exhaust issues.

Does anybody know if the vectors are having the same problem? I have not read anything on their forum. If this is strickly an apex problem, I would have no problem jumping over to a vector. I don't want to deal with this problem every year.

 

[Attacker]

I also ground my clamps down so I could tighten the allen bolts as tight as I could. I hope this helps. I only had 1 clamp that was turned down. Just turned it with big adjustable pliers. One tip is, take the gas line off at the fuel rail instead of the back of the tank.

 

[favarcat]

We used 2 pry bars to push in the flex pipes to make room for the new gaskets. The gaskets were all breaking down at the top. None were completely gone and the y-pipes were alright. His wasn't backfiring yet, mine is. Will find out today if my y-pipes are alright.

 

[ROCKERDAN]

See my post here in other thread....I highly recommend removing the flexpipes to ease installation of donuts....I also think grinding down clamps will be fine but not too much,and also think ultra copper RTV would be smart on clamp to help reduce wear overtime..

I DO NOT think bending the flexpipes is smart to allow removal and installation of new donuts,It takes about 2 minutes to remove the flexpipes with proper swivel socket and you can REUSE the copper gasket at HEAD/flexpipes,as its copper,and wont hurt at all to reuse..ive reused mine after motor build and doesnt leak at all....it only can go on one way as it has a tab that will hit frame on right side....

here is my post...
http://www.ty4stroke.com/viewtopic.php?t=51683

Dan

 

[favarcat]

Tore into mine today. 2 clamps loose with very little gasket left. One gasket half gone and one not too bad.

One y-pipe cracked and the other one wore into some by the clamp.

$318 for the left y-pipe. Dealer called Yamaha and they said they would NOT cover the parts.

I do not think the right one will last with a couple sections of it worn into like that.

Looks like the extended warranty would be a good idea with these sleds. I'll have to change these gaskets every year or take the chance of spending $600 for y-pipes each year. If someone has to pay a dealer for this with labor it would be much more. The whole exhaust system including the flex pipes attached to the motor has to come off, seat, gas tank, suspension dropped, etc.

I feel this should be a recall, at least for the parts.
Every Apex/Attak will do this with any kind of miles on them. I bought the 4-stroke to put miles on and not have to trade sleds all the time. I know any sled can have problems, but when a certain model of any brand has the same exact problem on every sled, it should be fixed by the company. If I wanted to trade every year or every other year, I might as well have stayed with 2-strokes.

End of rant, just not to happy with this situation. And everyone here will be in the same situation if you put miles on these 4-strokes.

 

[favarcat]

That is what we did with mine today,removed the flex pipes.

See my post here in other thread....I highly recommend removing the flexpipes to ease installation of donuts....I also think grinding down clamps will be fine but not too much,and also think ultra copper RTV would be smart on clamp to help reduce wear overtime..

I DO NOT think bending the flexpipes is smart to allow removal and installation of new donuts,It takes about 2 minutes to remove the flexpipes with proper swivel socket and you can REUSE the copper gasket at HEAD/flexpipes,as its copper,and wont hurt at all to reuse..ive reused mine after motor build and doesnt leak at all....it only can go on one way as it has a tab that will hit frame on right side....

here is my post...
http://www.ty4stroke.com/viewtopic.php?t=51683

Dan

 

[favarcat]

Tore into mine today. 2 clamps loose with very little gasket left. One gasket half gone and one not too bad.

One y-pipe cracked and the other one wore into some by the clamp.

$318 for the left y-pipe. Dealer called Yamaha and they said they would NOT cover the parts.

I do not think the right one will last with a couple sections of it worn into like that.

Looks like the extended warranty would be a good idea with these sleds. I'll have to change these gaskets every year or take the chance of spending $600 for y-pipes each year. If someone has to pay a dealer for this with labor it would be much more. The whole exhaust system including the flex pipes attached to the motor has to come off, seat, gas tank, suspension dropped (if changing y-pipe), etc.

I feel this should be a recall, at least for the parts.
Every Apex/Attak will do this with any kind of miles on them. I bought the 4-stroke to put miles on and not have to trade sleds all the time. I know any sled can have problems, but when a certain model of any brand has the same exact problem on every sled, it should be fixed by the company. If I wanted to trade every year or every other year, I might as well have stayed with 2-strokes.

End of rant, just not to happy with this situation. And everyone here will be in the same situation if you put miles on these 4-strokes.

 

[ROCKERDAN]

where are your Y pipes cracking?...can we see some pics?....

or are they just wearing thru from the clamps?...

can you see the breaks or are they underneath tunnel?

Dan

 

[favarcat]

I could see mine from the the top. It was on the side of the pipe. I may bring it to someone tomorrow and see if they can weld it. But there isn't much material to work with.

The crack is on the right side of the left y-pipe.

A picture of the gaskets also.

It isn't cracked where the clamp is on it. It must just move and vibrate more when the gasket wears out making everything loose.

 

[favarcat]

I could see mine from the the top. It was on the side of the pipe. I may bring it to someone tomorrow and see if they can weld it. But there isn't much material to work with.

The crack is on the right side of the left y-pipe.

A picture of the gaskets also.