Exposing the myth that Snell approved helmets are better.

[Tork]

I would rather NOT buy a helmet that is Snell approved!!!!

Dot standard allows up to 250G's to be tranmitted to the head in an impact
Snell allows 300G's.

300 G's is regarded as the point where severe brain injury turns into a fatality.

Here is the article, it is a very long read. If you are a motorcyclist you may have seen this http://www.motorcyclistonline.com/gearb ... et_review/

Here are some quotes and an abbreviated version of the article.

The killer—the hardest Snell test for a motorcycle helmet to meet—is a two-strike test onto a hemispherical chunk of stainless steel about the size of an orange. Tough tests such as this have driven helmet development over the years. But do they have any practical application on the street, where a hit as hard as the hardest single Snell impact may only happen in 1 percent of actual accidents? And where an impact as severe as the two-drop hemi test happens just short of never?

Dr Jim Newman, a former Snell Foundation Director and an actual rocket scientist says "the Snell sticker has become a marketing gimmick!!!

Dr. Jim Newman, an actual rocket scientist and highly respected head-impact expert—he was once a Snell Foundation director—puts it this way: "If you want to create a realistic helmet standard, you don't go bashing helmets onto hemispherical steel balls. And you certainly don't do it twice.

"Over the last 30 years," continues Newman, "we've come to the realization that people falling off motorcycles hardly ever, ever hit their head in the same place twice. So we have helmets that are designed to withstand two hits at the same site. But in doing so, we have severely, severely compromised their ability to take one hit and absorb energy properly.

"The consequence is, when you have one hit at one site in an accident situation, two things happen: One, you don't fully utilize the energy-absorbing material that's available. And two, you generate higher G loading on the head than you need to. "What's happened to Snell over the years is that in order to make what's perceived as a better helmet, they kept raising the impact energy. What they should have been doing, in my view, is lowering the allowable G force.

"In my opinion, Snell should keep a 10-foot drop [in its testing]. But tell the manufacturers, 'OK, 300 Gs is not going to cut it anymore. Next year you're going to have to get down to 250. And the next year, 200. And the year after that, 185.'"

The Brand Leading The Brand

"The Snell sticker," continued Newman, "has become a marketing gimmick. By spending 60 cents [paid to the Snell foundation], a manufacturer puts that sticker in his helmet and he can increase the price by $30 or $40. Or even $60 or $100.

"Because there's this allure, this charisma, this image associated with a Snell sticker that says, 'Hey, this is a better helmet, and therefore must be worth a whole lot more money.' And in spite of the very best intentions of everybody at Snell, they did not have the field data [on actual accidents] that we have now [when they devised the standard]. And although that data has been around a long time, they have chosen, at this point, not to take it into consideration."

Another leading head injury expert, Dr Hurt

Dr. Hurt sees the Snell standard in pretty much the same light.
Just as helmet designs should be rounder, smoother and safer, they should also be softer, softer, softer. Because people are wearing these so-called high-performance helmets and are getting diffused [brain] injuries ... well, they're screwed up for life. Taking 300 Gs is not a safe thing.

The Europian Union Extensive Helmet Study

"Current designs are too stiff and too resilient, and energy is absorbed efficiently only at values of HIC [Head Injury Criteria: a measure of G force over time] well above those which are survivable."

Newman isn't the only scientist who thinks getting hit with much more than 200 Gs is a bad idea. In fact, researchers have pretty much agreed on that for 50 years.
did a Snell-certified helmet work better at protecting a person in the real world than a plain old DOT-certified or equivalent helmet? The answer was no. In real street conditions, the DOT or equivalent helmets worked just as well as the Snell-certified helmets.

Military Standards

Even our military disagrees with Snell on this. The U.S. Army Aeromedical Research Laboratory (USAARL) has created a g-tolerance standard for helicopter crewpersons’ helmets. For a two-meter drop height, the same drop height we used in 3/4 of our testing, the Army allows no more than 150 gs to the earcup areas of the head, which they have determined are especially vulnerable, and no more than 175 gs on other areas. Should we motorcyclists—who are often older, not as fit, and not quite so willing to die or sustain head injuries as eager young soldiers—accept g tolerance levels of 300g for the same hits?

Malcontents

The Snell Foundation has also been less than kind to some renowned head- injury scientists for trying to find, and give our readers, the truth.

We expected more from a foundation that many of us, for many years, have trusted with our money, our lives, our health and the welfare of our families.

In one e-mail, to a member of the Norton Owners List, Snell’s Executive Director called our article "an attack," perpetrated by "malcontents."



Anyway, this is about 20% of the whole article. Please read it.

 

[LazyBastard]

DOT allows 400G (not 250).

From http://www.mmsp.org/helmets/snell.htm

Snell and DOT use different methods to analyze these pulses. Snell limits the peak value to no more than 300 G’s. Dr. George Snively, one of Snell’s founders, had determined on the basis of his own research that young adult men could survive head crash impact accelerations at levels between 400 to 600 G’s. He selected test criteria on the order of 300 G’s for the Snell standards as acceleration levels that would be safe for almost all healthy people. The DOT Standard requires that the peak acceleration not exceed 400 G’s but they also put duration limits on the acceleration pulse. The period of time for which the pulse exceeds 200 G’s must not be longer than 2 milliseconds. The period of time for which the pulse exceeds 150 G’s must not be longer than 4 milliseconds.

Also note; *ALL* helmets are DOT. *SOME* are both.

Also, there's a difference in the testing;
DOT uses the honor system (mfg tests it themselves), whereas SNELL does their own testing (no cheating here).


As for the price difference.... on Friday, I took my gf to buy a helmet. DOT/SNELL, $70.00 cdn (with tax).

 

[Tork]

No, DOT pays private contractors to spot check the manufacturers.

DOT also put duration limits on the acceleration pulse. The period of time for which the pulse exceeds 200 G's must not be longer than 2 milliseconds. The period of time for which the pulse exceeds 150 G's must not be longer than 4 milliseconds. The effective rate is 250Gs because Snell does not put time limits on their 300G maximum.

That article is from a year and a half ago. The manufacturer only has to pay Snell $.60 per helmet. Now there could be helmets made in China for example that could be very cheap that have Snell approval.

Traditionally, Snell helmets on average are more expensive.

Here are helmet tests that show DOT helmets with less g forces to the head than Snell. Why? because they require the double hit in the same spot for their testing which causes a compromise in impact absorbtion. Granted these are M 2000 standards because M2005 is new and hasnt filtered down to independant testing.

One of the conclusions in the Motorcyclist magazine article is that a softer polycarbonate DOT-only approved helmet may provide the highest levels of protection.

DOT-only helmets:

Z1R ZRP-1 (P)
Average: 152 Gs
LF: 148 gs
RF: 176 gs
LR: 153 gs
RR: 130 gs

Fulmer AFD4 (P)
Average: 157 Gs
LF: 152 gs
RF: 173 gs
LR: 175 gs
RR: 130 gs

Pep Boys Raider (P)
Average: 174 Gs
LF: 163 gs
RF: 199 gs
LR: 185 gs
RR: 152 gs

BSI/DOT Helmets

AGV Ti-Tech (F)
Average: 169 Gs
LF: 156 gs
RF: 199 gs
LR: 195 gs
RR: 129 gs

Suomy Spec 1R (BSI) (F)
Average: 182 Gs
LF: 192 gs
RF: 215 gs
LR: 197 gs
RR: 126 gs

ECE 22-05/DOT Helmets

Schuberth S-1 (F)
Average: 161 Gs
LF: 151 gs
RF: 180 gs
LR: 176 gs
RR: 137 gs

Suomy Spec 1R (ECE) (F)
Average: 171 Gs
LF: 156 gs
RF: 200 gs
LR: 190 gs
RR: 140 gs

Shark RSX (F)
Average: 173 Gs
LF: 166 gs
RF: 187 gs
LR: 201 gs
RR: 141 gs

Vemar VSR
Average: 174 Gs
LF: 171 gs
RF: 198 gs
LR: 166 gs
RR: 162 gs

Snell 2000/DOT Helmets

Icon Mainframe (P)
Average: 181 Gs
LF: 168 gs
RF: 217 gs
LR: 189 gs
RR: 152 gs

Icon Alliance (F)
Average: 183 Gs
LF: 179 gs
RF: 200 gs
LR: 179 gs
RR: 175 gs

Scorpion EXO-400 (P)
Average: 187 Gs
LF: 185 gs
RF: 212 gs
LR: 193 gs
RR: 158 gs

AGV X-R2 (F)
Average: 188 Gs
LF: 192 gs
RF: 226 gs
LR: 166 gs
RR: 167 gs

Arai Tracker GT (F)
Average: 201 Gs
LF: 193 gs
RF: 243 gs
LR: 203 gs
RR: 166 gs

HJC AC-11 (F)
Average: 204 Gs
LF: 195 gs
RF: 230 gs
LR: 231 gs
RR: 163 gs

Scorpion EXO-700 (F)
Average: 211 Gs
LF: 207 gs
RF: 236 gs
LR: 226 gs
RR: 176 gs[/quote]

 

[yammiman]

What you are saying doesn't make sense to me - regardless of the impact "G's" level between the two, I see it this way - you are wearing a DOT helment that can only sustain 250 G's impact - you receive a 300 G blow - the helment fails and you are dead - you are wearing a Snell helment and receive the same 300 G blow - helment takes the blow, you are still alive but you may have brain damage - something else that has effected my choice between DOT and Snell is the fact that the ever so popular modular helments (including the Ski Doo BV2 thing) fail the front impact test - at impact the front portion of the helment that lifts up completly dissinagrates leaving your face exposed to injury - you might as well be wearing an open face helment - even the open face Moto Cross style helments pass the front impact test and are Snell approved - If I didn't know better, I would say the article is just someone trying to sell more DOT helments - make mine Snell!!

 

[SledderSteve]

Paralysis of analysis...

 

[NY_Nytro]

All I know is I feel safer with any full face helmet when seeing bikes on the street with some guys wearing a salad bowl with a strap.

 

[Mighty]

For an explanation of the differences, consider the following document: http://www.smf.org/articles/dot.html

There are some important points to consider in the document:

Both Snell and DOT position the helmet on a test headform and then drop that helmeted headform through a two guided falls onto a fixed steel anvil. The test is repeated so that each helmet is impacted on at least four different sites on its surface against either a flat or hemispherical shaped anvil. Snell testing also impacts the helmet against a steel edge anvil that may simulate the edge of a sign stanchion or guardrail. (This means that Snell tests the helmet in more potential impact scenarios.)

Snell limits the peak value to 300 G's. The DOT Standard requires that the peak acceleration not exceed 400 G's. (This means that a DOT helmet allows your fragile brain to experience MORE G's than a Snell helmet allows. In brain impact measurements, more IS NOT better.)

Snell Certification means that Snell technicians in Snell labs tested samples of the helmet to Snell standards before the helmet was certified. Furthermore, as a condition of certification, Snell regularly buys samples of all Snell certified products and brings them into their lab for follow-up testing. DOT certification is done on the honor system. The helmet's manufacturer determines whether his helmets satisfy DOT and then claims the qualification for himself. There is not even a reporting requirement. (Who would you trust? An independent not-for-profit agency or something tested on "the honor system".)

Snell standards are re-evaluated annually. The DOT standard is 25 years old. (Hmmm. Times, technology, and information do change with new discoveries. Do you REALLY think that a 25 year old standard is just as good today as it was 25 years ago?)

 

[Mighty]

All I know is I feel safer with any full face helmet when seeing bikes on the street with some guys wearing a salad bowl with a strap.

I chuckle when I see the 350 lb guy wearing those.........

 

[Tork]

Reading comprehension> you guys :-(

The importan part of the DOT standard is this.......
The period of time for which the pulse exceeds 200 G’s must not be longer than 2 milliseconds. The period of time for which the pulse exceeds 150 G’s must not be longer than 4 milliseconds.

......According to both these curves, exposing a human head to a force over 200 Gs for more than 2 milliseconds is what medical experts refer to as "bad."

Why are the Snell standards at 300 G's? Lets hear it from the horses mouth.

"The whole business of testing helmets is based on the assumption that there is a threshold of injury," says Ed Becker, executive director of the Snell Foundation. "And that impact shocks below that threshold are going to be non-injurious. "We're going with 300 Gs because we started with 400 Gs back in the early days. And based on [George Snively's, the founder of the SMF] testing, and information he'd gotten from the British Standards Institute, 400 Gs seemed reasonable back then. He revised it downward over the years, largely because helmet standards were for healthy young men that were driving race cars. But after motorcycling had taken up those same helmets, he figured that not everybody involved in motorcycling was going to be a young man. So he concluded from work that he had done that the threshold of injury was above 400 Gs. But certainly below 600 Gs.

The British Standards Institute info I believe goes bact to the early 60's
And Snell dropped it down to 300...um why? because it seemed reasonable? The threshold of injury is below 600G but higher than 400g?

I could go on.

You need to ask yourselves this:
Why is Dr Newman(The former director of Snell), Dr Hurt, Our military standards, the European Union testing, and virtually every head trauma expert going against Snell????
Why does Motorcyclist magazine, show in their tests that DOT is as good as Snell/Dot? What do they have to gain in pointing out that Snell is not the Holy Grail of helmet safety?

I am not trying to bash Snell either, they do good work and they have advanced helmet safety greatly over the years.

All I am trying to do is point out that in reality, you arent really safer if your helmet has the Snell sticker.

Many other factors come into play, that do not have anything to do with the testing standards.

 

[Mighty]

I hear what your saying tork but I can't help but wonder how that DOT helmet from walmart made of who knows what with that bubble face shield that sells for $19.95 is better than what most of us wear.

 

[Tork]

I see it this way - you are wearing a DOT helment that can only sustain 250 G's impact - you receive a 300 G blow - the helment fails and you are dead - you are wearing a Snell helment and receive the same 300 G blow

-

You are misunderstanding this, it is not the amount of force a helmet can withstand....it is the G forces transmitted to the Brain (head) A lower number is way better.

between DOT and Snell is the fact that the ever so popular modular helments (including the Ski Doo BV2 thing) fail the front impact test - at impact the front portion of the helment that lifts up completly dissinagrates leaving your face exposed to injury - you might as well be wearing an open face helment - even the open face Moto Cross style helments pass the front impact test and are Snell approved - If I didn't know better, I would say the article is just someone trying to sell more DOT helments - make mine Snell!!

Oh this is another thing, fail the frontal test? modular helmets are a joke because they might as well be open face? because the flip up part will fail?

A number of open faced helmets are Snell approved believe it or not such as this HJC sold by Harley Davidson.

Snell could not decide for a long time about testing modular helmets....so they didn't get tested. Because Snell dropped the ball on this so bad, others came to bat. I believe all but one motorcycle modular passed closely duplicated Snell tests, and it didnt fail by much.

http://www.motorcyclecruiser.com/access ... omparison/

Another misconception is that motocross style helmets are safer.
Snowmobile specific full face helmets or modulars, simply werent tested Moto X helmets are really that, sold as snowmobile helmets and in the process the Snell stickers happened to come along with them. Snell is really very new to sled specific helmets, it is not that they wont pass, it is just that most of them havent even been tested.

 

[Tork]

I hear what your saying tork but I can't help but wonder how that DOT helmet from walmart made of who knows what with that bubble face shield that sells for $19.95 is better than what most of us wear.

I agree 1000% some of these things offer as much protection as Paris Hilton's panties (that is if she would ever wear panties LOL)

But even some Snell helmets are open face. and I wouldnt be surprised if these $20 helmet makers cheat, slapping DOT (or possibly even Snell) stickers on them. Who are you going to sue, some company in China or Indonesia?

 

[LazyBastard]

The importan part of the DOT standard is this.......
The period of time for which the pulse exceeds 200 G’s must not be longer than 2 milliseconds. The period of time for which the pulse exceeds 150 G’s must not be longer than 4 milliseconds.

And since SNELL helmets are ALSO DOT, they meet this requirement.

 

[JDKRXW]

There was an excellent artical in Motorcyclist Magazine this past June. Long and short of it concurs with all the info. Tork has posted.
Antoher thisng that hasn't been mentioned is that in addition to testing fees, SNELL actually charges helmet manufacturers a fee of approx. $2.00 per helmet to use their sticker.
It certainly seems to me after looking at all the info. (and I've seen lots) that a SNELL rating is more about protecting the helmet than what's inside it.

 

[Tork]

The importan part of the DOT standard is this.......
The period of time for which the pulse exceeds 200 G’s must not be longer than 2 milliseconds. The period of time for which the pulse exceeds 150 G’s must not be longer than 4 milliseconds.

And since SNELL helmets are ALSO DOT, they meet this requirement.

Ehhh sort of..
If you read up on the motorcycle side of things a number of Snell helmets exceed the DOT limits. Is DOT going to go after a Snell helmet for exceeding the DOT standard? No way, they are going to go after the helmet manufacturer that they suspect doesnt meet any standard., if they do anything at all.
That is why DOT is only valid with a reputable company that is going to police itself and do the right thing.
Snell is a better at policing standards.

The point is, name brand helmets that are designed to meet only DOT requirements transfer less G's to the brain than Snell/Dot designs...on average