Front Skid Shock Relocation Mod

[stingray719]

WOW, I just went and looked at the pics on the yamaha website, http://www.yamahamotorsports.com/sport/products/modelgallerylib/698/1/0/gallery.aspx#
of the lower shock mounting on the Mountain sled and it is in the same place as old Viper. Unless I see this wrong or it changes before production. Doesn't effect me as mine are already moved but if you 2015 guys have "heavy front" you might look at moving the lower skid shock mount as specified in the thread below. http://www.ty4stroke.com/threads/new-experiment.128654/

 

[turbo800]

Unless the MTX's have changed for '15, looks like your correct! The M8 and M1100 center shocks are in the same spot...

 

[Turtle]

You've got to look at it from a common point of reference. The pics I've attached below draw a vertical line from a common point on both pictures - that being the pyramidal frame mounting bolt. One is the Viper MTX, the other is an M8000 .... Regardless of where the idler is located, it looks to me like the lower shock mount on the Viper is closer to the red line than the Cat.

 

[turbo800]

Good point.

That also tells me there is either some chassis mounting point, front arm length, or shock differences .

 

[stingray719]

Unless the MTX's have changed for '15, looks like your correct! The M8 and M1100 center shocks are in the same spot...

View attachment 98240
View attachment 98241

The bright spot is it is really easy to change. Made ours handle just like an M8.

 

[stingray719]

You've got to look at it from a common point of reference. The pics I've attached below draw a vertical line from a common point on both pictures - that being the pyramidal frame mounting bolt. One is the Viper MTX, the other is an M8000 .... Regardless of where the idler is located, it looks to me like the lower shock mount on the Viper is closer to the red line than the Cat.
View attachment 98242 View attachment 98243

Yep, I had a 2014 M8 on the trailer side by side with a 2014 Viper and measured from common point of reference. I moved the mounting point on the Viper just a little farther forward on the Viper to account for a little more weight and it worked great for me. Your mileage may vary though.

Please excuse scratches...sled now has more than a few.

 

[stingray719]

You've got to look at it from a common point of reference. The pics I've attached below draw a vertical line from a common point on both pictures - that being the pyramidal frame mounting bolt. One is the Viper MTX, the other is an M8000 .... Regardless of where the idler is located, it looks to me like the lower shock mount on the Viper is closer to the red line than the Cat.
View attachment 98242 View attachment 98243

Coming new from Muffinworks, template to drill skid shock mounting relocation!

 

[Turtle]

Coming new from Muffinworks, template to drill skid shock mounting relocation!

Nice!

 

[cannondale27]

It sure seems to me that they are tuning suspension using geometry changes rather than shock changes. It makes it tough if you dont have the sled you like available to compare since even a small position change does alot. Would be nice for them to have measurements in manual if they are going to be moving mount points from model to model or year to year.

 

[stingray719]

It sure seems to me that they are tuning suspension using geometry changes rather than shock changes. It makes it tough if you dont have the sled you like available to compare since even a small position change does alot. Would be nice for them to have measurements in manual if they are going to be moving mount points from model to model or year to year.

And we don't have a 2015 mtx to see if maybe it has a longer shock to make up the difference and does not need relocation. But I am pretty sure the same engineer that made the XTX nose heavy did the same to the MTX. Just my opinion of course.

 

[Off Trail Mike]

Might be able to shed some light on this. The 2012 Proclimb (162 and 153) and the Procross (141) had the same suspension arms but different shock lengths and therefore different mounting positions on the rails. The Proclimb used to use an 11.25" shock and the Procross was 12.5" if memory serves me right. Don't know if that's changed in newer model years, but I doubt it, as it is a very good suspension.

I know when I ran an AC M suspension on my MTX I drilled a second set of holes on the rails and used to switch between the the M (162/153) and XF (141) "spec" shocks just to see the effect on handling. Quite sure the rear skid arms/rails/shocks on the AC sled's haven't changed much since 09 (aside from rail aesthetics and mounting points) so the ProCross/ProClimb will have the same small differences.

OTM

 

[Mtnviper]

Might be able to shed some light on this. The 2012 Proclimb (162 and 153) and the Procross (141) had the same suspension arms but different shock lengths and therefore different mounting positions on the rails. The Proclimb used to use an 11.25" shock and the Procross was 12.5" if memory serves me right. Don't know if that's changed in newer model years, but I doubt it, as it is a very good suspension.


OTM

This is also true with the 2014 sleds as well. The Proclimb shock is approx 3/4" shorter then the Procross 141" front skid shock.

I remember reading somewhere in the write up's for the 2015 MTX/M7000, that they have a new rail profile also. Since the 2015 MTX/M7000 is equipped with smaller 7 tooth driver's, it would make sense that the 2015 rails may have more of a curve to them. This would pull the rail tips up slightly, which would reduce track clip vibration and also reduce the chances of stabbing a track when the limiter straps are adjusted all the way out.

If the rails are different, then it may be an "Apples to Oranges" comparison when comparing the 2014 to a 2015 sled.

Bill

 

[stingray719]

This is also true with the 2014 sleds as well. The Proclimb shock is approx 1" shorter then the Procross 141" front skid shock.

I remember reading somewhere in the write up's for the 2015 MTX/M7000, that they have a new rail profile also. Since the 2015 MTX/M7000 is equipped with smaller 7 tooth driver's, it would make sense that the 2015 rails may have more of a curve to them. This would pull the rail tips up slightly, which would reduce track clip vibration and also reduce the chances of stabbing a track when the limiter straps are adjusted all the way out.

If the rails are different, then it may be an "Apples to Oranges" comparison when comparing the 2014 to a 2015 sled.

Bill

I agree. When I bought my 2014 M8 it sat right next to a 2013 M8 and you could visually see a different attack angle in the front. The Cat shop I bought it from said the 2014 rails were slightly different but I never measured them to be sure, as 3 of us all saw the same thing that day. Its possible the rails are the same if 3 of us all saw it wrong

 

[MCXPRESS USA]

From what I understand the MTX will have a longer front arm compared to the XTX

 

[Off Trail Mike]

Not so sure the front arm will do it. The switch to 7 tooth drivers (from 8) x 3" pitch means the driver diameter gets smaller by almost a full inch (0.954"). Assuming Cat stays with the same length tracks, 153/162, the only way to do this is change the rail profile or raise the skid. I doubt they raised the skid as it lowers ground clearance and greatly increases steering effort, as more weight is transferred to the skis.

When I put an AC M skid on my 7 tooth x 3" pitch Nytro MTX 153, the first thing I realized is that it was going to be a very, very tight fit because going from 8 to 7 moves the skid up almost 7/16" to get the track to meet the driver properly, and if you don't want to loose ground clearance, you have to move your rails back 1.4". In my case I moved the rails back to the point where I had the minimum track adjustment I could get away with and lost a bit of ground clearance as well. When my track is fully tensioned, I have about 1/4" from the end of the rails to my track clips, but it does fit, and never rubs. I also compensate up front by running slightly lower air pressure in the shocks.

You can see how far forward the adjusters are in this pic.


To MtnViper and Stingray's point AC don't have much choice but to change rail profiles. It is good news because for those of us running the AC skid in the old Nytros, we can finally get a rail that "fits" our sleds better and regain some of the lost ground clearance and transfer more weight to the rear. For the Viper MTX....here comes those 3" paddles baby!

OTM