eric3793
Pro
Fantastic thread Air19. I enjoy reading every one of your posts. There are so few snowmobilers that understand how much fun it is to have a good utility sled. I have a lightweight REV too and I spend much more time on my VK. I received my Yamaha 11" skins & dual carbides but no riding yet. I really like the look of the Simmons skis you purchased and I hope I have not made a mistake.
One thought on the reverse difficulties. It may be worth backing off 1/4 turn on the chain case adjustment. It may be tight enough to make shifting diffficult. As things warm up inside a chain case the adjustment changes. You would think the chain would expand and get looser but the gears grow slightly too. I recall having an old Polaris WT chain a little tight (still withing spec) making it difficult to shift. There is a liberal tolerance for this adjustment...after all, finger tight is not exactly specific.
One thought on the reverse difficulties. It may be worth backing off 1/4 turn on the chain case adjustment. It may be tight enough to make shifting diffficult. As things warm up inside a chain case the adjustment changes. You would think the chain would expand and get looser but the gears grow slightly too. I recall having an old Polaris WT chain a little tight (still withing spec) making it difficult to shift. There is a liberal tolerance for this adjustment...after all, finger tight is not exactly specific.
air19
Pro
Thanks Eric,
I will definitely try out your suggestion on the chain case.
I had another great ride today. And I say ride because I sat down again a lot of the time thanks to my new wide flexi skis. The higher riding position of the VK Pro sure can be comfortable on a 6 hour grooming run. I'm completely sold on wide skins now for the VK Pro. Mine perform better than my original flex-skis. I think the only down side might be the strange looks you might get and the ribbing from other riders. That might go away as you rev up the VK and plane away from them on some virgin snow.
We had 6 inches of dry powder last night. I tried one of my groomers first. The VK Pro pulled it fine, but I was pushing alot of this nice new snow out to the sides. I should have known better trying to skip a step. So I went back to my roller and it did great packing down all this nice powder to be groomed to perfection on another day. My roller is 6 feet wide so I spent the day widening my trails with two passes to 12 feet everywhere the trees would permit. I had alot more confidence today riding the edges with my wide flexi skis and not having that outer ski dive down. Just a nice stable ride and the snow set up well with the roller.
Sweet - this is how grooming is supposed to be.
I will definitely try out your suggestion on the chain case.
I had another great ride today. And I say ride because I sat down again a lot of the time thanks to my new wide flexi skis. The higher riding position of the VK Pro sure can be comfortable on a 6 hour grooming run. I'm completely sold on wide skins now for the VK Pro. Mine perform better than my original flex-skis. I think the only down side might be the strange looks you might get and the ribbing from other riders. That might go away as you rev up the VK and plane away from them on some virgin snow.
We had 6 inches of dry powder last night. I tried one of my groomers first. The VK Pro pulled it fine, but I was pushing alot of this nice new snow out to the sides. I should have known better trying to skip a step. So I went back to my roller and it did great packing down all this nice powder to be groomed to perfection on another day. My roller is 6 feet wide so I spent the day widening my trails with two passes to 12 feet everywhere the trees would permit. I had alot more confidence today riding the edges with my wide flexi skis and not having that outer ski dive down. Just a nice stable ride and the snow set up well with the roller.
Sweet - this is how grooming is supposed to be.
Kråkan
TY 4 Stroke Junkie
I find my dads VK is tough to get in reverse aswell. Not as bad as yours but still not as good as can be expected
eric3793
Pro
air19 said:
I have about 600 miles on the 11" skins w/Roetin TruTrack carbides. On groomed trails they are a great improvement over the stock skis. They work well in deep stuff too. However, in loose snow they are a handfull. I would rather have the big Simmons skis because I know that they would handle great in all conditions.
air19
Pro
eric3793 said:
Hey Eric,
What do you mean they are a handfull?
By the way I tried your suggestion of "backing off 1/4 turn on the chain case adjustment", and it is easier getting into reverse. Not as easy as I would expect. But definitely an improvement. Thanks.
eric3793
Pro
air19 said:
Glad the adjustment made getting into reverse a little easier.
The ski skins are OK but not great. When I commented on loose snow being a "handful" I meant that you really need to be careful at speed because they plow and dart. Today's ride was on beautiful groomed trails and the sled handled very well. Keep in mind that we are riding 50-60mph all day long which is not exactly typical VK use. I am riding with folks that have standard Simmons skis and they had much less trouble in the loose snow. Again, you get what you pay for.
If you ever want to trade my skis for your Gen II skis, just let me know!
eric3793
Pro
I stopped at a Yamaha dealer in Fort Kent and he had a set of the Gen II skis. I was tempted. They looked awesome although they are about 6" shorter than the wide skins. I'm sure they would cure the occasional darting issues. I'm going to look for some adapters to mount my old Polaris Simmons skis on the VK just to try them.
air19
Pro
Simmons sells the flexi-ski mounting plates. A bit pricy like everything from Simmons - $65.
eric3793
Pro
air19 said:
Do you still like the Gen II skis?
air19
Pro
Simmons Flexi-Ski Gen II Second Report
I have had my Gen II Flexi-Skis out now on about half a dozen grooming runs. I really like these skis and everything I said in my first report still holds true.
I have continued to work the edges of my ski trails where the snow is soft and not well compacted. The Gen II skis do a great job keeping the sled steady in these conditions. My previous regular width Flexi-Skis used to dip at unpredictable times and caused me to tip twice this year. You talked about your wife and you uprighting the VK Pro. Try that yourself sometime. You'll need a shovel and lots of patience digging out all the snow under the track to create a hole it can fall into with just a slight tip because that's all you can cause this monster to do by yourself. The new skis are much more predictable and are allowing me to improve me ski trails by widening them.
Turning is just as good if not better than the regular skis.
The only scenario you talk about that I don't run across often in my work is the darting on a real hard packed trail. Even though I have been grooming my ski trails two to four times a week since the snow started flying, they are soft compared to the big snowmobile trails in Vermont that the big groomers and drags work on. Just too tired after my long grooming runs to then want to go out for a joy ride on the big trails.
I now have the heavy front end of my VK Pro set up just to my needs. Lots of front end emphasis with suspension adjustments to get lots of weight up front for good steering. And now this is effectively counter-balanced with these huge skis that haven't sacrificed any of my steering (they have actually improved it slightly).
I have had my Gen II Flexi-Skis out now on about half a dozen grooming runs. I really like these skis and everything I said in my first report still holds true.
I have continued to work the edges of my ski trails where the snow is soft and not well compacted. The Gen II skis do a great job keeping the sled steady in these conditions. My previous regular width Flexi-Skis used to dip at unpredictable times and caused me to tip twice this year. You talked about your wife and you uprighting the VK Pro. Try that yourself sometime. You'll need a shovel and lots of patience digging out all the snow under the track to create a hole it can fall into with just a slight tip because that's all you can cause this monster to do by yourself. The new skis are much more predictable and are allowing me to improve me ski trails by widening them.
Turning is just as good if not better than the regular skis.
The only scenario you talk about that I don't run across often in my work is the darting on a real hard packed trail. Even though I have been grooming my ski trails two to four times a week since the snow started flying, they are soft compared to the big snowmobile trails in Vermont that the big groomers and drags work on. Just too tired after my long grooming runs to then want to go out for a joy ride on the big trails.
I now have the heavy front end of my VK Pro set up just to my needs. Lots of front end emphasis with suspension adjustments to get lots of weight up front for good steering. And now this is effectively counter-balanced with these huge skis that haven't sacrificed any of my steering (they have actually improved it slightly).
air19
Pro
Another hitch idea
Yes I have another hitch idea I wanted to get some feedback on. My pursuit for perfect steering never ends. I still think I can get even better results with a better hitch. Of course my goal is to have the VK Pro pulling my big G2 groomer steer just as well as if the groomer wasn't attached.
I talked earlier about an offset hitch but I really don't need that anymore because with my wide flexi-skis I'm able to get right out to the edge of my trails.
I showed pictures of a gooseneck hitch but I really don't like all the extra weight it puts on the front of the groomer. It makes it a bear to take off when I get stuck.
So my next idea is what I'll call the "tow buddy" because I got this idea from the RV world where I saw a product called the tow buddy. Imagine a two wheel contraption that tags along behind your pickup using a standard hitch. The contraption has two hitch connections on it to accept a regular trailer or a fifth wheeler. The contraption takes on all the tongue weight of the trailer, and the pickup performs as if it's pulling a farm trailer with a steerable front axle.
Now lets translate that to the snowmobile and groomer world. I was thinking about building a two ski contraption that would take on all the tongue weight of my groomer and then hitch it onto my snowmobile. The main reason that any snowmobile can't steer as well with a groomer is all that tongue weight pushing down behind the track and lifting the front end and skis up. The G2's tongue weight is about 140 lbs and it has an effect for sure even on the front heavy VK Pro.
I know another crazy hitch idea from Air19. It's been a great winter so far and I've had a lot of sled time when I keep thinking how I can get the ultimate setup. Reactions welcome as always.
Yes I have another hitch idea I wanted to get some feedback on. My pursuit for perfect steering never ends. I still think I can get even better results with a better hitch. Of course my goal is to have the VK Pro pulling my big G2 groomer steer just as well as if the groomer wasn't attached.
I talked earlier about an offset hitch but I really don't need that anymore because with my wide flexi-skis I'm able to get right out to the edge of my trails.
I showed pictures of a gooseneck hitch but I really don't like all the extra weight it puts on the front of the groomer. It makes it a bear to take off when I get stuck.
So my next idea is what I'll call the "tow buddy" because I got this idea from the RV world where I saw a product called the tow buddy. Imagine a two wheel contraption that tags along behind your pickup using a standard hitch. The contraption has two hitch connections on it to accept a regular trailer or a fifth wheeler. The contraption takes on all the tongue weight of the trailer, and the pickup performs as if it's pulling a farm trailer with a steerable front axle.
Now lets translate that to the snowmobile and groomer world. I was thinking about building a two ski contraption that would take on all the tongue weight of my groomer and then hitch it onto my snowmobile. The main reason that any snowmobile can't steer as well with a groomer is all that tongue weight pushing down behind the track and lifting the front end and skis up. The G2's tongue weight is about 140 lbs and it has an effect for sure even on the front heavy VK Pro.
I know another crazy hitch idea from Air19. It's been a great winter so far and I've had a lot of sled time when I keep thinking how I can get the ultimate setup. Reactions welcome as always.
SusitnaAk
Newbie
- Joined
- Jan 9, 2008
- Messages
- 2
I should think that would work good , of course would add to the lenght of your set up.And would want to 45% your turns, We use them up here for the front of 4 skied trailers. Easy to build just big T Then pick sq. Stock to go down that old set of skis would bolt to.
tolson
Newbie
The 'Ski-Buddy' sounds like a neat idea. Like SusitnaAk said, sharp corners would be an issue.
I think it would work when you have fresh snow and you're just packing, but there might be issues when you have the teeth down cutting hard icy trails. The front of the G2 might tend to jump/bounce and lift the teeth (and the ski-buddy) out of the snow?? The extra connection may also cause the G2 to wiggle (ever see a pickup pulling a farm wagon on the hwy?) and the comb and tracks might not be straight...
On corners, would the weight/pull of the G2 cause the ski-buddy to stay in a straight line from the snowmobile hitch to the G2 hitch and almost skid around corners?? You might need to have the skis rotate/steer separate from the hitch platform...
Another option would be to install skis somewhere on the front of the G2, and then pull it with a hinged solid bar??
How would either of these setups interact with bumps or drifts on the trail? Would it cut them down better or worse?
What about road crossings and snowbanks?
Still thinking...
So, when will it be ready to test???????????
I think it would work when you have fresh snow and you're just packing, but there might be issues when you have the teeth down cutting hard icy trails. The front of the G2 might tend to jump/bounce and lift the teeth (and the ski-buddy) out of the snow?? The extra connection may also cause the G2 to wiggle (ever see a pickup pulling a farm wagon on the hwy?) and the comb and tracks might not be straight...
On corners, would the weight/pull of the G2 cause the ski-buddy to stay in a straight line from the snowmobile hitch to the G2 hitch and almost skid around corners?? You might need to have the skis rotate/steer separate from the hitch platform...
Another option would be to install skis somewhere on the front of the G2, and then pull it with a hinged solid bar??
How would either of these setups interact with bumps or drifts on the trail? Would it cut them down better or worse?
What about road crossings and snowbanks?
Still thinking...
So, when will it be ready to test???????????
air19
Pro
tolson said:
Lots of good feedback guys.
Tolson your first issue is the one I worry about the most - if the tracksetter doesn't follow it's usual straight line then this won't work.
I thought about bumps and was going to have the skis rotate like usual on their pin axis. Hadn't thought about them rotating side to side around the corners, that would be cool.
And I actually thought about a quick test with something directly under the G2. Right now my G2 is setup with a jackstand front and center. I was thinking of putting a kid's saucer sled under that to act as a multi-directional ski. Then I could see if supporting the front of the G2 and therefore taking the tongue weight off the back of the VK Pro would make the difference I am hoping for. Worst case with this one, I will bend the jackstand.
air19
Pro
The Ski Dolly
I have created yet another hitch in my never ending search for perfect steering. That means I want my steering to be just as tight when I have a groomer attached as compared to the VK Pro by itself.
Here is the "Ski Dolly". It's basically a dolly on skis that takes on all the tongue weight of the real attachment that I'm pulling. It's very light. A bit long since I'm using skis and I want to make sure I clear the VK Pro tracks on any tight turns. It has minimal tongue weight on the VK, but it's built strong enough to take on lots of tongue weight itself. I'll clean up the welds and grind and paint later. This is a prototype to test the concept.
I'm testing it today with my trailer. We are pulling in some cedar for fence posts next summer. My initial reactions so far today are positive. First and foremost the VK Pro is steering well. I haven't hit my usual problem hills yet so the real test of turning at the top of a steep uphill remains. Second the entire train (VK Pro, Ski Dolly, and my blue trailer) are tracking in line with each other. This is better tracking than the gooseneck hitch, which caused the groomer to track 6" to 12" inside. Third when I tried to back up once it worked to my advantage. I jack-knifed the Ski Dolly, which got me back about 4 feet and that was enough for me to change direction and get going again. This technique might get me out of some tight spots with the groomer.
Here are some pictures to start and more tests will follow later this week.
I have created yet another hitch in my never ending search for perfect steering. That means I want my steering to be just as tight when I have a groomer attached as compared to the VK Pro by itself.
Here is the "Ski Dolly". It's basically a dolly on skis that takes on all the tongue weight of the real attachment that I'm pulling. It's very light. A bit long since I'm using skis and I want to make sure I clear the VK Pro tracks on any tight turns. It has minimal tongue weight on the VK, but it's built strong enough to take on lots of tongue weight itself. I'll clean up the welds and grind and paint later. This is a prototype to test the concept.
I'm testing it today with my trailer. We are pulling in some cedar for fence posts next summer. My initial reactions so far today are positive. First and foremost the VK Pro is steering well. I haven't hit my usual problem hills yet so the real test of turning at the top of a steep uphill remains. Second the entire train (VK Pro, Ski Dolly, and my blue trailer) are tracking in line with each other. This is better tracking than the gooseneck hitch, which caused the groomer to track 6" to 12" inside. Third when I tried to back up once it worked to my advantage. I jack-knifed the Ski Dolly, which got me back about 4 feet and that was enough for me to change direction and get going again. This technique might get me out of some tight spots with the groomer.
Here are some pictures to start and more tests will follow later this week.
