Grooming in Vermont with 08 VK Pro

[air19]

The overheat light went on today. So here's another clue.

I was out grooming today. 28 degrees, powder surface on the trails after all the snow recently that I'm still working. Decided to step through my grooming implements instead of hooking on the heavy one first. So I started out with my roller and went about 20 miles cruising around the trails about 15 mph with my fan override switch on - no problems. I've attached a picture of my roller which is a big culvert on an axle.

In the afternoon I hitched up the G2 groomer and headed out with the fan override on again. I was cruising for a couple hours and all of a sudden I get suckered in by one of my trails with a side tilt and I'm beached off the right side of the trail. I unhook the groomer and swing it around to get it out of the way. Then I start rocking the VK Pro back and forth while it's on a side tilt and I'm trying to stop it from tipping over. Sure enough the overheat light comes on.

So this two days in a row that I've slide off my trails on the right side (I know, I just need to learn to be a better groomer), had the VK Pro on a right side tilt (left side high, right side low), and the overheat light comes on. Engine compartment doesn't seem hot, no overheat smell, plenty of antifreeze in the overflow.

As a side note, when I've gotten stuck and needed to go back and forth, my transmission has been a bear to change gears and I have a 2008. I don't like turning the engine off and switching gears every time it really is stuck, but that's my only choice right now. Does anyone know the date and recall number for the transmission recall?

 

[SusitnaAk]

Vk

Been watching this thread from the begining, The day by day life of a work Machine This is great, Keep it up We are all leaning from you. I don,t own one myself, But my friend of mine does, I have to say we haven,t had a bit of trouble with it!! something going on here when you took that machine out in powder, no way it should have overheated!! Couple things here when it tilts light comes on that is a sign of air trapped in there, Also i haven,t seen any mention of is it really overheating, IE: Bad sending unit, cranky light, or if the sending unit isn,t in the water and getting steamed to death? Back in the day we used to run head temp gauges, to montor what was going on,It was back then a aftermarket thing, The Polaris Fusion i have has it in the digal gauges, Mode thing havn,t even fig, out how to use all it has ,but that one ,becuase of the importance of it! Anyways my point here if where mine i would find a way to insall that, than you Know for sure what is going on inside of that motor than you could use your switch accordingly, I am covinced that is the machine to own for work on the market today. Puts my old widetrack to shame, But in 1993 the widetrack Was the king!! Good luck with Keep posting we,ll be watching!

 

[air19]

Re: Vk

Thanks SusitnaAk,

A lot of things are pointing to trapped air, or something bad with the electronics/sensors/indicators. I'll keep watching it closely, looking into the suggestions from this forum, and working with my dealer to get it resolved.

One thing I want to point out to any reader of this thread. You are probably hearing a lot more about the issues that I am having and working through. I fully expected when I switched from my 9 year old Skandic SWT to this new VK Pro that it would take some time to get it all set up for my grooming needs and some tuning. I just consider this part of the process of getting the sled perfect for my needs.

I'm very happy that I made the switch. Today was a great example. I went out on a 5 hour grooming run pulling my heavy drag and I came back with a smile on my face. The 4 stroke really makes my longer grooming runs easier. I used to get headaches from the smell from the oil and exhaust from the 2 stroke. And the VK Pro sitting position is really comfortable for me. Yes I have to be more ready for the tips, but 90% of the time it's like sitting on a Harley just cruising, sounds like one too.

 

[YETI]

alittle late but try setting the back end up at least over night then lower and lift the front as qwick as possiable and have someone loosen the bleed screw in the rear. When they rebuilt my 600 vmax it kept over heating light on talked to dealer he said that it can at times take a long time to get the air out. keep it angled as long as you can. I was Able to do it for two days. it worked as I could hear air come out like a whistle.

 

[eric3793]

I agree with Jack Shaft regarding the overheating. This is a unique problem. I just returned from a vigorous weekend of grooming and boondocking in 25 degree weather. My '08 dragged without issue for hours on end. I rode into camp on a plowed road and my hyfax started getting sticky and I finally got into the deep snow to cool them down. No engine overheating. After we had the trails smoothed we did some serious off-trail exploration in low-range. These are a beast to manage and I think it was managing me! I had it laying on its side on several occasions and the light didn't come on once. We both got stuck and I was happy that the VK out performed my friends Artic Cat WT (non-turbo). I pulled him out three times but he did not need to pull out the VK. I always seemed to be able to get it in reverse and pack the snow enough to launch out of the tough spots. This was in sunny 35 degree weather...no overheat but I heard the fan on for the first time today.

One trick with reverse is to tap the throttle just a bit while holding the brake...shift into reverse while letting off the brake and it goes in like butter. When you are stuck, you need to get into reverse and this seems to work better that shutting off the engine.

One coolant experience that worked with Polaris was to loosen the radiator cap and drive for a few smooth miles. This may get some of the air out of the system.

I am getting used to his machine...just about 1200 miles so far. My only issue is still the firm rear suspension. I de-iced it with hot water and greased every fitting. I had my friend watch as I stood in the rear rack and jumped up and down hard. I weigh 190 pounds and the suspension moved about 4". His AC moves 10" just pushing down on the rack. Is this right?

 

[air19]

Lots of good ideas to get the air out - thanks everyone I'll try a few this week.

Eric I will definitely try doing your trick using the brake and getting into reverse. There must be a story about how you discovered that one.

I was setting track today for my XC ski trails and had a lot of thinking time on the sled, and I began to wonder when I should really use low gear or high gear on the transmission. I wasn't just thinking about this as a way to lessen the overheating burden. Although this was suggested by Krakan a while back in this thread. I was just thinking that the tranny on this 4 stroke with all this torque might want to be handled differently.

I've always used the rule of thumb that when I'm towing I have it in low gear, and when I'm not I have it in high gear. I know pretty simplistic, but it worked for 9 years with my Skandic SWT. The VK Pro manual says that it can be used in low gear up to 50 mph. And since I don't go over 40 mph, I could just leave it in low gear and forget about it. And I've always thought the belt would last longer with less spinning if I left it in low gear.

But are these just old fashion rules of thumb and would my sled which is towing 90% of the time be better off in high gear sometimes?

That's the big question for the day. The little question is related to the following incident that happened at the end of my ride. I usually use the key to turn off the engine when I'm done, or yesterday when I was turning it off a couple of times to do tough gear changes. I've been noticing lately that when I turn the key off the engine has not been shutting down instantaneously. A slight delay has crept in. Today I turned the key off and pulled it out and the engine was still running - surprise! After hitting the kill button and scratching my head on this one, I came back 10 minutes later and it shut down as expected with the key. I had an old Cutlass with this same "capability", just wondering if anyone else has experienced a slight delay or had their ignition key not able to turn off the engine?

Otherwise I set amazing track today, and I'm the only one that knew it. The snow conditions are great up here in Vermont right now. I had a couple hundred skiers coming out today for a big ski party. After I set my track in the morning and before the skiers started to arrive we had a strange snow event - a big squall that lasted about 20 minutes - huge snow dump, high circling winds, and zero visability. After that it was calm for the rest of the afternoon. And my beautiful tracks that set up so firm were buried from the snow squal. Oh well, I'll just have to remember those glances backward I did while setting the track to make sure they were good, and knowing they don't get any better.

 

[YETI]

I only have a hundred miles on but no hesitation with the key. this comming thursday I go an a 10 trip to camp towing grooming ice fishing two up riding, and a little drinking at the end of the day. I will let you know if anything is different when I get back. I hope your dealer will get your problem fixed soon so you can just relax and enjoy your sled and grooming.

 

[wayne]

I have had two vk pros and haven't had any issues with the key. the only problem I have had with the 08 to date is the spring in the secondary breaking This happened on the trail with nothing in tow. Maybe the key problem is part of the big picture somehow tied into the overheating problem . I had 8000 kms on my 06 ond only saw the temp light come on once and after I removed the vent sheild it never happened again From my limited knowledge i don't see how this could happen if you are in lots of snow. My new vk has over 2000 km and I haven't had any overheating problems at all I removed the vent sheild as soon as I purchased the sled.

 

[Kråkan]

I dont know if the high gear thing is a good idea in a longer period of riding but you could try feeing the clutches in low gear and do the same thing in high gear and you should feel if they get alot warmer... If they are HOT in high gear and not in low then you know its not a good idea.

I agree with the posts about air in the system.. Your dealer should be able to check it and bleed it, I mean the sled is NEW!! It is not your problem to solve imo...

If that doesnt solve it the next step would be installing a heatexchanger from a BIG truck or something!!

 

[trlbrkr]

The Vikings tippiness may be solved by upping the compression on your front shocks. I had the trail kit upgrade http://www.hygearsuspension.com/yam_snow.html
installed on my Attak and after turning the clicker up 7 clicks from the rebuild I have a great handling sled~eliminated the darting and no tippiness. You have the KYB® gas cell front shock that they will add a remote with clickers .

 

[smeurett]

Otherwise I set amazing track today, and I'm the only one that knew it. The snow conditions are great up here in Vermont right now. I had a couple hundred skiers coming out today for a big ski party. After I set my track in the morning and before the skiers started to arrive we had a strange snow event - a big squall that lasted about 20 minutes - huge snow dump, high circling winds, and zero visability. After that it was calm for the rest of the afternoon. And my beautiful tracks that set up so firm were buried from the snow squal. Oh well, I'll just have to remember those glances backward I did while setting the track to make sure they were good, and knowing they don't get any better.[/quote]

I loved reading this-Join the sicko grooming club! Same thing happened to me last week-groomed at 3:00am, the tracks and cordory were so perfect-set up nicely....hoped no one would ski that day-dang skiers mess up a perfectly groomed trail Anyway, got done, went to my "real" job and had a chance to ski in the evening-noone had been out on the trail, so I got to "mess" things up.

then.....it snowed, and everything was covered and had to be re-done again. Best winter in Wisconsin in a longgg time!

 

[yamadoo]

This was a fun read. THANKS GUYS

Working on a snowmobile kinda of a modern cowboy thing. I am sure it is still work yet you are out doors on a sled.

Man if I lived by you I could sure spare you some grooming hrs. I love to ride and think and make something useful ie the track.

Good luck with the sled.

THanks

Yamadoo

 

[smeurett]

Kinda been thinkin about this for the past couple years...you know, low/no snow years, and I'm not a "snowmobiler" yet I probably have wayyyyy more hours on a sled...granted, at 8 mph, than just about any 'biler in central wisconsin.

This year...well, it's way easy to groom fresh snow every week-haven't had to deal with freeze thaw hardly at 'tall.

 

[air19]

Long day grooming

It was 25 degrees out and we had 4 inches of fresh snow from last night. I took the VK Pro out with the G2 groomer for a long grooming run - about 7 hours.

The morning session was fine. I started with the easy trails and finished all of them by lunch. In the afternoon I went over to the hilly trails. Just to state up front, the overheating light did not come on today and I was not running the fan. During the afternoon I found more snow on the hilly trails, maybe 6 inches, since I probably didn't get out to them on my last grooming run. The G2 was clearly winning the steering battle - it was outmuscling the VK Pro during the afternoon. I missed about a dozen of my usual turns and got stuck more times than I can recall in a while. Now I've done a lot of adjustments to improve my VK Pro steering, but it was something about the conditions this afternoon, and the toughest test of trying to steer going uphill with a big drag behind.

Anyways got stuck really bad one time and I couldn't get the VK Pro out of a big hole, so I pulled out my Warn SnoWinch 1.5. I was on about a 10 degree pitch trying to pull my sled uphill, the way the skis were pointed, and the Warn SnoWinch couldn't budge it. I'd been running the sled for about 2 hours in the afternoon before this so I can only assume the battery was fine. I guess I'll just have to get out the old come-along for next time. I thought it was a good buy for $250 from Cabellas, maybe I'm not the first one to find that even with it's 1500 lb rating, it can't budge my 800 lb sled. So I got the shovel out and half an hour later I've got the VK out of the hole and back to grooming.

An hour later I'm stuck again off the side of a trail after I slid through another missed turn. I get the groomer out of the way and start rocking the VK Pro. Another bad situation so shovel time again. But when I fired the VK Pro back up it cut out. Fired up OK, but as soon as I started applying the throttle, the engine died. Scratched my head for a bit, shoveled some more to get the sled as level as possible, cleared out as much snow as I could from the track, started it back up to look at the indicators, held the throttle cause it sounded like it was going to die, then when I applied the throttle it cut out again. It was like the engine didn't have power. I had to hold the throttle down lightly just to keep it from dying, but any more throttle demand and it didn't want to go.

Nothing happening here so I did the long walk home and I'll try it again tomorrow.

Thoughts?

 

[maim]

tors? be my guess or it needs some gas line de-icer.