air19
Pro
Re: Setting track with YTS drag and Tidd Tech Track setter
Hi Trailboss and welcome to this forum. Sounds like you have lots of sled and grooming experience. I hope you will share some of it with us. There are lots of comments/questions in here. I'll try to respond back on a couple.
1. I believe you are grooming with a compaction drag and a TiddTech tenderizer w/tracksetter. The tenderizer has skids on it's four corners. These help the tenderizer in tracking. I haven't seen your compaction drag, but it sounds like it wanders a bit. Does it have any skids? If not you might want to consider welding some on each of the corners. Nothing too big, just a small 4"x4" plate so you have 2"x4" in the snow.
2. If you have any implement with a big tongue weight that is pushing down too hard on the rear end of your sled, consider building a "ski dolly". Just a half day project if you have some scrap metal and skis around.
3. Regarding battery power needed for a G2 or a Ginzu. This really isn't a big problem. I use rechargeable battery power packs that you would buy for your car at a car parts store. No need to ever tap into your sled electronics. The battery pack is removeable of course and it allows me to bring it inside each night and give it a full charge so it's ready the next day. My switch controls are wired in between the battery and the actuators on the groomer. Once you start using these remote controlled actuators to raise and lower your groomer teeth or your tracksetter, you will be spoiled and not go back to manual setting.
4. Your main question was - "with the equipment we now have, the drag does virtually all of the grooming except for setting a track, and the results are pretty decent. If we purchase a ginzu groomer or a G2, what will we gain, and what percentage of grooming time will we use it vs. just using the drag?"
I'll try to answer this but it's not a simple answer. I have multiple grooming implements from TiddTech - a 6 foot Roller, a Tenderizer, and a small G2. I wish I also had a 4x8 compaction drag. The quick answer is that the more implements you have, the better job you can do because each implement can excel over the others in certain situations.
To get to your question, I'll try to compare when I use the G2 vs. the tenderizer, and if I had a compaction drag when I would use the G2 vs. this compaction drag.
G2 vs. tenderizer - The G2 levels the surface much better, can actually renovate a hardpack surface (vs. the tenderizer which just bounces along the hard surface), and sets a very strong comb pattern. The tenderizer is about half the weight so when I know I'm going to get stuck, it's easier to get unstuck. Anytime I'm dealing with old snow I grab the G2. In new snow conditions if it's less than four inches I'll grab the G2. Over four inches and I'm probably first grabbing my roller and then maybe the tenderizer if I'm worried about getting stuck. Then the next day I'll grab the G2 to really create nice ski conditions.
G2 vs. compaction drag - If I had both then I would use the compaction drag maybe once every 10 days to really level the trails - nothing works better. The G2 does a decent job leveling, better than the tenderizer. Basically the length of your leveled surface can be measured from your hitch point to the end of your drag. The tenderizer does about 4 feet at a time, the G2 about 7 feet, and a compaction drag about 10 feet, depending on it's length. Compacting and leveling are one aspect of grooming though. With a tenderizer or G2 you get other aspects - setting a great cordoroy finish product or tracksetting for example. A compaction drag is probably the heaviest/hardest drag to pull around every day with a snowmobile. And something you probably don't want to do in new snow. With new snow I'd rather use a roller and then a tenderizer or G2. A couple days later after things have settled I'd pull out the compaction drag.
You might be doing just fine with the equipment you have right now. Depends a lot on your snow patterns and your trails. My trails are very hilly and I could not pull a compaction drag around until I had a firm old snow surface. Find another groomer with a G2 or a Ginzu near you and try it out.
By the way for a lot of these grooming questions I also spend time on "Koz Grooming Links" at this URL: http://s8.zetaboards.com/snowgroomingtalk/forum/7354/ There are about half a dozen very active groomers working cross country ski trails that have lots of interesting comments. I spend my time on this forum for all sled issues and some grooming talk, and I go to that forum for lengthier grooming discussions. Lots of great resources on the net.
Hi Trailboss and welcome to this forum. Sounds like you have lots of sled and grooming experience. I hope you will share some of it with us. There are lots of comments/questions in here. I'll try to respond back on a couple.
1. I believe you are grooming with a compaction drag and a TiddTech tenderizer w/tracksetter. The tenderizer has skids on it's four corners. These help the tenderizer in tracking. I haven't seen your compaction drag, but it sounds like it wanders a bit. Does it have any skids? If not you might want to consider welding some on each of the corners. Nothing too big, just a small 4"x4" plate so you have 2"x4" in the snow.
2. If you have any implement with a big tongue weight that is pushing down too hard on the rear end of your sled, consider building a "ski dolly". Just a half day project if you have some scrap metal and skis around.
3. Regarding battery power needed for a G2 or a Ginzu. This really isn't a big problem. I use rechargeable battery power packs that you would buy for your car at a car parts store. No need to ever tap into your sled electronics. The battery pack is removeable of course and it allows me to bring it inside each night and give it a full charge so it's ready the next day. My switch controls are wired in between the battery and the actuators on the groomer. Once you start using these remote controlled actuators to raise and lower your groomer teeth or your tracksetter, you will be spoiled and not go back to manual setting.
4. Your main question was - "with the equipment we now have, the drag does virtually all of the grooming except for setting a track, and the results are pretty decent. If we purchase a ginzu groomer or a G2, what will we gain, and what percentage of grooming time will we use it vs. just using the drag?"
I'll try to answer this but it's not a simple answer. I have multiple grooming implements from TiddTech - a 6 foot Roller, a Tenderizer, and a small G2. I wish I also had a 4x8 compaction drag. The quick answer is that the more implements you have, the better job you can do because each implement can excel over the others in certain situations.
To get to your question, I'll try to compare when I use the G2 vs. the tenderizer, and if I had a compaction drag when I would use the G2 vs. this compaction drag.
G2 vs. tenderizer - The G2 levels the surface much better, can actually renovate a hardpack surface (vs. the tenderizer which just bounces along the hard surface), and sets a very strong comb pattern. The tenderizer is about half the weight so when I know I'm going to get stuck, it's easier to get unstuck. Anytime I'm dealing with old snow I grab the G2. In new snow conditions if it's less than four inches I'll grab the G2. Over four inches and I'm probably first grabbing my roller and then maybe the tenderizer if I'm worried about getting stuck. Then the next day I'll grab the G2 to really create nice ski conditions.
G2 vs. compaction drag - If I had both then I would use the compaction drag maybe once every 10 days to really level the trails - nothing works better. The G2 does a decent job leveling, better than the tenderizer. Basically the length of your leveled surface can be measured from your hitch point to the end of your drag. The tenderizer does about 4 feet at a time, the G2 about 7 feet, and a compaction drag about 10 feet, depending on it's length. Compacting and leveling are one aspect of grooming though. With a tenderizer or G2 you get other aspects - setting a great cordoroy finish product or tracksetting for example. A compaction drag is probably the heaviest/hardest drag to pull around every day with a snowmobile. And something you probably don't want to do in new snow. With new snow I'd rather use a roller and then a tenderizer or G2. A couple days later after things have settled I'd pull out the compaction drag.
You might be doing just fine with the equipment you have right now. Depends a lot on your snow patterns and your trails. My trails are very hilly and I could not pull a compaction drag around until I had a firm old snow surface. Find another groomer with a G2 or a Ginzu near you and try it out.
By the way for a lot of these grooming questions I also spend time on "Koz Grooming Links" at this URL: http://s8.zetaboards.com/snowgroomingtalk/forum/7354/ There are about half a dozen very active groomers working cross country ski trails that have lots of interesting comments. I spend my time on this forum for all sled issues and some grooming talk, and I go to that forum for lengthier grooming discussions. Lots of great resources on the net.
air19
Pro
Gas Smell near full tank
I noticed a gas smell today after I put almost a full tank of gas in. I remember this last year, but forgot to mention it. The smell went away once it got down to about 3/4.
Anyone else notice the gas smell carrying a full tank?
I noticed a gas smell today after I put almost a full tank of gas in. I remember this last year, but forgot to mention it. The smell went away once it got down to about 3/4.
Anyone else notice the gas smell carrying a full tank?
VKbcnorth
Extreme
air19
Pro
Thanks for the pointer VKNorth.
I will NOT be filling my tank past 3/4 anymore.
Glad it wasn't particular to my unit, another design issue for Yamaha.
I will NOT be filling my tank past 3/4 anymore.
Glad it wasn't particular to my unit, another design issue for Yamaha.
trailboss
Newbie
VK Pro Full Tank smell
Our gas tank feller neck has a white plastic sleeve that extends 1"-2" into the gas tank to keep the gas level below this. So, more is better, I took it out, filled all the way up, Bad Move, I had gas running out a overflow hose, put plastic sleeve back in. The Skidoo we had been filling all the way up, no problem, so why not the new sled. Will have to check owners manual.
Our gas tank feller neck has a white plastic sleeve that extends 1"-2" into the gas tank to keep the gas level below this. So, more is better, I took it out, filled all the way up, Bad Move, I had gas running out a overflow hose, put plastic sleeve back in. The Skidoo we had been filling all the way up, no problem, so why not the new sled. Will have to check owners manual.
air19
Pro
I have an interesting new symptom that is causing me problems. After I have been out grooming for a couple of hours, I can tend to stop and turn off the VK while I'm talking to skiers out on the trails.
A couple of times this year now I have stopped for about 20 minutes, and when I started again the VK felt like it was running at half power and I had to work it to break it free. I know this sounds like user error at this point.
Maybe my slides are sticking, or the slush from the coolers is freezing up and holding the track. I run with scratchers all the time and their is always a good spray hitting the sliders so I don't think that's the problem.
My solution so far has been to unhook the groomer and drive the sled around in high gear and it eventually loosens up or warms up and feels like I have full power again, then I can go back and hitch up the groomer put it in low and finish my grooming run. If I don't do this and just try to pull the groomer, the engine stalls.
Just wondering if anyone else has run into this and potentially have an easy answer.
A couple of times this year now I have stopped for about 20 minutes, and when I started again the VK felt like it was running at half power and I had to work it to break it free. I know this sounds like user error at this point.
Maybe my slides are sticking, or the slush from the coolers is freezing up and holding the track. I run with scratchers all the time and their is always a good spray hitting the sliders so I don't think that's the problem.
My solution so far has been to unhook the groomer and drive the sled around in high gear and it eventually loosens up or warms up and feels like I have full power again, then I can go back and hitch up the groomer put it in low and finish my grooming run. If I don't do this and just try to pull the groomer, the engine stalls.
Just wondering if anyone else has run into this and potentially have an easy answer.
trailboss
Newbie
Sorry, can not help with this problem. I have a question, grooming at slow speeds, 6mph, does the slidekicks still give good snow spray? Our 08 vkpro has only over heated once in 1.5 winters of use, pulling YTS drags, teeth loaded, on really hard packed skate trail?
air19
Pro
Yes the my scratchers do a good job and I don't even have them mounted in an optimal position. Look back on page 14 of this thread, about 2/3rd of the way down. I have two interesting pictures - showing one side of the VK where I didn't have a scratcher (because it fell off), and the other side show where there was a scratcher working for a couple of hours. Huge difference.
These scratchers have a tendency to fall off. Not good given how pricey they are. Use Lock-Tite to put them on. I also have mine in a mid mount position and they would perform better if they were farther up front, but I didn't want to drill any more holes and there was a convenient one in the middle.
These are a bit pricey, but since they bend so easily I can leave them down all the time, go in reverse and no problems.
There are other options out there that would work just as well. The main thing is to get some pair and put them on to save your sliders.
These scratchers have a tendency to fall off. Not good given how pricey they are. Use Lock-Tite to put them on. I also have mine in a mid mount position and they would perform better if they were farther up front, but I didn't want to drill any more holes and there was a convenient one in the middle.
These are a bit pricey, but since they bend so easily I can leave them down all the time, go in reverse and no problems.
There are other options out there that would work just as well. The main thing is to get some pair and put them on to save your sliders.
VKbcnorth
Extreme
air19 - on your track problem. Sounds as if your track is freezing to the snow or/and all the warm snow in the suspansion is freezing. I always park our VKPro on two 24" 2x4s at right angle to the track. You could pack 2 2x4s, throw them on the snow ahead and pull up on top of them. Might save wear on the belt and a lot of frustration. Of course you will also need to lft the front of each ski to break them lose from the snow.
air19
Pro
Hey VKbcnorth,
Your comment makes sense. I'm going to just have to limit my "good groomer" conversations to a couple of minutes. Over lunch time I will be watching for this and probably putting it up on my storage ramp.
But if it's more related to all the slush that comes off the coolers freezing up, then I'll have to bring it inside.
Your comment makes sense. I'm going to just have to limit my "good groomer" conversations to a couple of minutes. Over lunch time I will be watching for this and probably putting it up on my storage ramp.
But if it's more related to all the slush that comes off the coolers freezing up, then I'll have to bring it inside.
Teton RB
Newbie
- Joined
- Nov 23, 2009
- Messages
- 8
Air 19,
I have experienced significant buildup of snow around the track of my Vk Pro. We get quite a bit of new snow here and after (or sometimes during ) a grooming session I need to clean out the accumulated snow from the track. This machine seems to have a tendency to warm up the snow and pack it tightly into the undercarrage. It seems to pack especially tight in the tunnel at the front of the track. In certain snow conditions I will start to hear a low rumbling sound and I can feel the engine starting to strain. I carry a small crow bar type tool that I use to dig the snow/ice from under the sled. It is a miserable job but it seems to do the trick. Some days I have to do this more than once.
All three of our VK Pros are stored outside during the grooming season so it is very important that we clear the snow from the track and wheels after each grooming session. On more than one occasion our groomers (me included) burned up belts by reving the engine to try to break it free after the sled has sat for a cold night. The warmed, compacted snow turns to a solid block that is extremely difficult to remove.
Perhaps this is contributing to the problem you described.
Regarding limiting your "good groomer conversations", I would recommend that you definitely do not. Based on the numerous comments you have made on this forum (and others), it is obvious that you are passionate about your work. If you are at all like me, the main reason you are out there is to provide this service to your friends, neighbors, and community. I am a volunteer groomer. I spend hundreds of hours each season working out on this track. I love to ski the freshly groomed track that I make but twhat really keeps me going is those "good groomer" conversations. I truly enjoy the friends I meet on the trail. When someone stops me to talk about the conditions or thank me for my efforts, it makes it all worth it, even if I have to spend the next 20 minutes chiseling out my sled.
Just had a great day and night of grooming. Had a lot of "good groomer conversations too. Check out my grooming report (Alta Track) www.tvtap.org
I have experienced significant buildup of snow around the track of my Vk Pro. We get quite a bit of new snow here and after (or sometimes during ) a grooming session I need to clean out the accumulated snow from the track. This machine seems to have a tendency to warm up the snow and pack it tightly into the undercarrage. It seems to pack especially tight in the tunnel at the front of the track. In certain snow conditions I will start to hear a low rumbling sound and I can feel the engine starting to strain. I carry a small crow bar type tool that I use to dig the snow/ice from under the sled. It is a miserable job but it seems to do the trick. Some days I have to do this more than once.
All three of our VK Pros are stored outside during the grooming season so it is very important that we clear the snow from the track and wheels after each grooming session. On more than one occasion our groomers (me included) burned up belts by reving the engine to try to break it free after the sled has sat for a cold night. The warmed, compacted snow turns to a solid block that is extremely difficult to remove.
Perhaps this is contributing to the problem you described.
Regarding limiting your "good groomer conversations", I would recommend that you definitely do not. Based on the numerous comments you have made on this forum (and others), it is obvious that you are passionate about your work. If you are at all like me, the main reason you are out there is to provide this service to your friends, neighbors, and community. I am a volunteer groomer. I spend hundreds of hours each season working out on this track. I love to ski the freshly groomed track that I make but twhat really keeps me going is those "good groomer" conversations. I truly enjoy the friends I meet on the trail. When someone stops me to talk about the conditions or thank me for my efforts, it makes it all worth it, even if I have to spend the next 20 minutes chiseling out my sled.
Just had a great day and night of grooming. Had a lot of "good groomer conversations too. Check out my grooming report (Alta Track) www.tvtap.org
air19
Pro
Teton RB,
Thanks for reminding me why I do this. I have to get back to more conversations on the trail while I'm grooming and I bump into skiers. I used to do this all the time when I used a 2 stroke Skandic SWT simply because it was so loud that I got into the habit of always shutting it off when I came upon a skier. Now with the VK I'm more concerned about icing up and I tend to wave and drive by. Thanks for the nudge to get back to better practices both for myself and my skiers.
Thanks for reminding me why I do this. I have to get back to more conversations on the trail while I'm grooming and I bump into skiers. I used to do this all the time when I used a 2 stroke Skandic SWT simply because it was so loud that I got into the habit of always shutting it off when I came upon a skier. Now with the VK I'm more concerned about icing up and I tend to wave and drive by. Thanks for the nudge to get back to better practices both for myself and my skiers.
Teton RB
Newbie
- Joined
- Nov 23, 2009
- Messages
- 8
Our voltage regulator went bad after about three years of use. The battery was no longer charging. I jump started it with a battery charger / starter. Gave it a 100 amp start. Maybe that was too much. Getting it replaced today and hopefully will be back in business.
air19
Pro
Teton RB said:
Hi Teton RB,
Any chance your problem was related to this thread posted by Joner last year? - http://www.ty4stroke.com/viewtopic.php?t=65592
Teton RB
Newbie
- Joined
- Nov 23, 2009
- Messages
- 8
Thanks for the info. I saw that post as well. We should check this regularly on all our machines. That could have quite possibly been the problem but the sled was taken to the shop before I had a chance to look for this. The shop said it was a bad regulator. I'll have to take their word for it at this point. I'll check the leads when I get it back.
Lots of snow here (finally).
Lots of snow here (finally).
