Help please 12 yamaha apex turns like crap

[whitedust1]

This will take someone smarter than me. Set tow to zero, set up shocks and transfer to ST specs no darting at all had a little push and increased transfer a bit and handling was exceptional and I have not touched anything since been 2-3 years. No darting at all something is way off in your set up. My sled is 2012 Apex XTX so far different than the mono.

 

[Double A]

I had the skis on my snow covered driveway I wiggled the skis back and forth and I believe they were not hanging up. Mabye I had the bungee cord too tight. Not sure about you guys but I have a lot of play in my skis. Ill have to reset toe and check ski pressure again. Mabye they are too tight. Could just be that gravel covered trail i was on didnt have enough of a base.

 

[Winderallday!]

Some ski play is attributed to the condition of the bushings in the a-arms and spindles along with the condition of the multiple heim joints in the steering system. Depending on how much ski play you are talking here, such as swinging like a limp dick, something else could be buggered or missing.
If your only choice is to adjust on a snow packed driveway, take the Snowtrackers off to eliminate them skewing your measurements. And put someone on the sled to represent rider weight, or have them take the measurements while you are sitting on the sled.

 

[trailanimal]

My 2 cents worth is with Apexallday, get rid of the ski play first then do toe adjustments.

 

[whitedust1]

It’s not the gravel base my STs don’t follow tire tracks in deeper snow. STs don’t dart have to get the slop out of your steering. You may need to visit a dealer for help.

 

[Sasquatch]

I must be setting mine up all wrong! I never measure from the ski, always from the carbide itself. Don't trust skis to be square so to speak with the carbide! I use my ski dollies under the carbide, I use an adjustable rod to set toe to 0, When the rod fits the same front and rear of carbide its perfect. I lift the front of sled with jack and remove dollies drop to floor on short chunks of old slider and check toe after settling sled If toe is correct I tighten lock nuts!

Now I wonder if measuring and finding center of ski front and rear can be done accurately with the carbide in mind. Especially once you put a bungee on the tip of the ski there is to much of a possibility of deforming the ski shape. Thinking about this would make sense that the sled now is toed out. That would make it push bad. Even snow trackers move around a bit if left to their own but they don't become unpredictable!

I agree though if skis have play in them other then handlebar play, meaning if one ski moves independently of the other by other then a minuscule amount because of bad bushings (my 11 is like new after 10,000 miles) then alignment is near impossible! If poster is unable to determine if bushings in A arms are worn out and or if trackers are set at 0, I would suggest getting help from someone who knows how to do this! Trackers if set correctly will become one hand on handlebar barely hanging on to it, straight ahead wonders. They will not dart and follow other tracks. They will turn when asked too!

 

[02ViperMody44]

I must be setting mine up all wrong! I never measure from the ski, always from the carbide itself. Don't trust skis to be square so to speak with the carbide! I use my ski dollies under the carbide, I use an adjustable rod to set toe to 0, When the rod fits the same front and rear of carbide its perfect. I lift the front of sled with jack and remove dollies drop to floor on short chunks of old slider and check toe after settling sled If toe is correct I tighten lock nuts!

Now I wonder if measuring and finding center of ski front and rear can be done accurately with the carbide in mind. Especially once you put a bungee on the tip of the ski there is to much of a possibility of deforming the ski shape. Thinking about this would make sense that the sled now is toed out. That would make it push bad. Even snow trackers move around a bit if left to their own but they don't become unpredictable!

I agree though if skis have play in them other then handlebar play, meaning if one ski moves independently of the other by other then a minuscule amount because of bad bushings (my 11 is like new after 10,000 miles) then alignment is near impossible! If poster is unable to determine if bushings in A arms are worn out and or if trackers are set at 0, I would suggest getting help from someone who knows how to do this! Trackers if set correctly will become one hand on handlebar barely hanging on to it, straight ahead wonders. They will not dart and follow other tracks. They will turn when asked too!

Just curious of the adjustable rod you use. Got a pic of this set-up?

 

[Sasquatch]

Just curious of the adjustable rod you use. Got a pic of this set-up?

Not off hand but my first one was an adjustable mop handle that was great until it got ran over. The one I use now is a industrial two piece telescoping handle. One end has a slightly rounded button made of nylon the other end was threaded but I rounded the end off more to match the opposite side. Basicly it is like an inside micrometer, you extend it out and turn the knob that joins the two pieces together to tighten it and lock the rod to a specific length at one end of the carbide. Now move it to the other end of the carbide if it has a bit of play adjust to widen the end you started with. Extend rod tighten try other end. When its snug at both ends of carbide 0 toe. On my Cats I ran about 1/8 toe out so tight at back 1/8th washer fit in the front. I think the first one was a swiffer handle with the plastic ends filed to an angled rounded point.

 

[02ViperMody44]

Not off hand but my first one was an adjustable mop handle that was great until it got ran over. The one I use now is a industrial two piece telescoping handle. One end has a slightly rounded button made of nylon the other end was threaded but I rounded the end off more to match the opposite side. Basicly it is like an inside micrometer, you extend it out and turn the knob that joins the two pieces together to tighten it and lock the rod to a specific length at one end of the carbide. Now move it to the other end of the carbide if it has a bit of play adjust to widen the end you started with. Extend rod tighten try other end. When its snug at both ends of carbide 0 toe. On my Cats I ran about 1/8 toe out so tight at back 1/8th washer fit in the front. I think the first one was a swiffer handle with the plastic ends filed to an angled rounded point.

Ok, I get what you are doing/saying. Thanks

 

[MBYammaHauler]

It was previously mentioned that finding your toe out of spec by 2" was unusual. I tend to agree.

FWIW, I once hit a curb under some snow while turning around and afterwards my one ski was toe'd in 2" too. I thought I could adjust it out but no, turns out I twisted my spindle. Maybe you bought the sled with a similar condition? If so it would be hard to realize it and may explain why nothing seems to be working for you. Here's what mine looked like; the splines are twisted. Just something easy to check that I have not seen mentioned yet.

 

[Double A]

Ok guys thanks for responses. I did notice that my upper A arms had some bushing play in the rear mounting positions. How hard are they to replace?

 

[steiner]

Ok guys thanks for responses. I did notice that my upper A arms had some bushing play in the rear mounting positions. How hard are they to replace?

No. Not hard to replace. The airbox and battery need to be removed to access the A arm nuts inside the bulkhead.
If you have not done an oil change you may as well do that while you are in there.
I believe there is a How To thread on this topic.

 

[steiner]

Found it in the Apex FAQ Section
https://ty4stroke.com/threads/tech-contest-installing-a-arm-bushings.89905/

 

[Double A]

UPDATE!! Reset toe with weight on sled. Took almost all ski pressure off. Set rear shock on second clip position.
HOLY #*$&@! This thing turns like a son of a bitch now! I am keeping up with my 2 stroke buddies now. I'm right on their asses in the twisties. These snowtrackers are awesome. Absolutly no darting and I can even turn on the pavement!
Thanks for all of your help guys. I absolutely love this sled now. I didn' have any fun riding it before but went out last night and I had a blast!

 

[Double A]

The momo shock skid feels wonderfull now after I moved the clip to the second position!