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Ignition dead,sled stranded,What wires to touch/Make it run?

Discussion in 'Apex General Talk' started by LazyTiger08, Jan 20, 2009.


  1. LazyTiger08

    LazyTiger08 Newbie

    Messages:
    23
    Location:
    Nipawin, Saskatchewan, Canada
    I drive a yamaha apex ltx 2008, i was out riding the other day when i stopped in at a friends farm when it was -30c outside, i went out to start it and there was no power to the ignition what so ever, even though i had blow dried the fuel pump relay like i always have to when its cold there was still no ignition, nothing happened when i turn the key

    I unplugged the ignition switch and there is power going into the little connector on 1 of the wires, the other 3 wires have no power, is this normal? What ive done is wired in an electric start ignition from an old yamaha excel but it has 5 wires instead of 4 (different colours also), and we can get it to turn the ignition on guages etc but no electric start so we touched the battery jumper cable to power on the starter which turns it over normally but there is no spark to any of the plugs?

    Does this mean something else is wrong or could it be the ignition causing this, if its the ignition causing this what wires do i put togethor to make it ignition come on and start then what 2 wires do i pull apart once it starts?

    This is really appreciated the guy said he will have my snowmobile towed if i dont get it out of there today, all i need is some type of setup to get it running.
     
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  3. LazyTiger08

    LazyTiger08 Newbie

    Messages:
    23
    Location:
    Nipawin, Saskatchewan, Canada
    Anyone? Please i need the snowmobile going soon, like i said it turns over while the wire is on the starter from the battery and the ignition is on (guages run, fuel pumps run for a few seconds) yet it won't fire, cleaned plugs off also did not help, it just cranks over no spark on the plugs what so ever.
     
  4. RedRocket

    RedRocket TY 4 Stroke Junkie

    Messages:
    548
    Location:
    NH
    Keep in mind this is from a 2003 RX-1 Service Manual but you might get lucky if the wiring is the same.

    Looking at the Main Switch (3) there are four wires, Brown (Br - Main Relay), Brown with White (Br/W - CDI and Kill Switch), Red with Yellow (R/Y - Ignition Fuse) and Red with White (R/W - Starter Relay). For OFF they are all disconnected, For ON it looks like (R/Y) and (Br) are connected and for START (Br) and (R/Y) are connected together and (Br/W) and (R/W)are connected together.

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]
    Click thumbnail for larger image.

    Hope this helps
     
  5. Len Todd

    Len Todd TY 4 Stroke God

    Messages:
    2,282
    Location:
    Baldwin, Michigan
    Is it safe to assume that the Emergency Shut off switch is in the up position?

    Have you checked all the fuses? There is an ignition fuse. Also, in this type of cold, even if the fuse tests O.K. you might want to consider checking that the fuse makes a good connection in the fuse holder.

    I'll take a look at your wiring diagram and get back to you, momentarily.
     
  6. Len Todd

    Len Todd TY 4 Stroke God

    Messages:
    2,282
    Location:
    Baldwin, Michigan
    With the key on, do you have power on the Brown wire going from the Keyswitch to the Emergency Kill Switch? If Yes, Do you have power on the Red/White wire coming from the Emergency Kill Switch? If No on the Brown Wire, then you need to check the main fuse which may be down by the Battery/Jumper Cable area.
     
  7. LazyTiger08

    LazyTiger08 Newbie

    Messages:
    23
    Location:
    Nipawin, Saskatchewan, Canada
    Well the kill switch has been broken off since i few days after i bought the sled, it may be down but i dont think so, and if it was when using this old ignition the dash lights would not turn on would they?

    The fuse in the fusebox is fine i put a thick wire in there so it would stop blowing fuses while i was fixing it, and im not sure about power ill have to test it later on today, and its like there is no start area on the key thing,, but i have ignition on the first notch of the key switch as the guages come on, fuel pumps run for a few seconds just no start, so any ideas why when i put the starter to direct power with the ignition on there is no spark? Ive wiped the plugs even though they were not really wet, and put them in the plug casing thing with the wire plugged in and the end of the plug touching metal and there was no spark, the guy that was helping me touched the plug to his tongue while i turned it over with the wire on the starter and there was still no spark, could it be bad plugs or is that still an ignition or main fuse problem?

    Thanks very much.
     
  8. Len Todd

    Len Todd TY 4 Stroke God

    Messages:
    2,282
    Location:
    Baldwin, Michigan
    You did not mention your were blowing fuses. A wire in the fuse holder can cause you to melt the circuit's wires. Maybe you have done that already? I guess the wire insertion is an indicator that you need the help of an electrical person. I would take the sled to the shop and have them fix it for you.

    The power to the gage comes via a different circuit than the ignition. However, power to the gage does indicate that the main fuse is working.

    If you are blowing the ignition fuse, you have a short. Wire Chaffing? Water in the connectors, maybe the ECU connector? You have to eliminate the short such that the fuse will not blow.

    Follow the power. You can start at the ignition fuse as I suggested above. Please let us know how you make out.
     
  9. LazyTiger08

    LazyTiger08 Newbie

    Messages:
    23
    Location:
    Nipawin, Saskatchewan, Canada
    The reason the fuses were blowing is because i was putting the wrong wires togethor when trying to start it (on the ignition switch) and i had run out of fuses so i put the wire in there as something to stop from having to buy those $5 mini fuses from shell. There is no mechanic within 1 hour of where the sled or we live (on our farm) and we do not have a truck to deliver it there, we have ordered an ignition it will be here in 3 weeks but this guy still needs it off his farm. But i know the guages are seperate from the ignition, but the guages run, fuel pumps run, etc when i put certain wires on this old ignition of mine and turn the key the guages come on and fuel pumps on, just no starter for some reason, but with that switch on i give direct power to the starter and it turns over but no spark. Thanks. Also is there a number i can call you at?
     
  10. LazyTiger08

    LazyTiger08 Newbie

    Messages:
    23
    Location:
    Nipawin, Saskatchewan, Canada
    Still no ideas?
     
  11. LazyTiger08

    LazyTiger08 Newbie

    Messages:
    23
    Location:
    Nipawin, Saskatchewan, Canada
    Wow i feel like an idiot now... I figured it out, it turns out my kill switch was actually down, i ignored everyone thinking since i had no kill switch this was not possible, i found the kill switch down in a hole in my handlebar switches and pulled the plastic in there up with needlenose plyers and hit the key on my new $80 ignition and it started.

    So i took it out driving today really excited how great it was running and when i went over a big drift and landed on a road (fairly hard landing but not much air) one bogey wheel on the right rear broke the inside of the wheel as it twisted sideways and tore out the bearing in the wheel, also somehow breaking off both clamps the tigteners go onto and possibly even one of the tighteners, and i put it into reverse to try to get the wheel all the way off as it was jammed up and drove backwards a little and got it off, and when i went to go into reverse the reverse switch is stuck and won't go forward.

    I ended up pulling to hard and pulling the handle right of the reverse lever of the apex and now every time it goes back on it pulls off easy, and ive drove the sled in reverse farther and everything it still will not go into forward or even pull out for that matter.

    It was -40 out today if that makes a difference but i really find poor quality in these machines compared to the old yamaha excel's back in 1980 that i really loved and enjoyed, even polarises and doo's seemed like they would have been a better option at this point, how in speed does a polaris 900 compare to the apex in speed/torque?

    I dont know im just getting frusterated with a snowmobile that has been constant problems, i found out the hard way if you start it too much without running it it kill spark plugs, i have to heat the relay on fuel pump AND starter to make it start at all in the morning on cold days, and the handwarmers fail to do anything when it is really cold out.

    I admit it its a fun machine, but it just doesn't seem to compare to the old yamahas or other machines ive owned.

    It eats belts every 900 km it has since i bought it, and the plastic around the dash is very cheap quality and the skis make it difficult to ride properly on smooth trail.

    Also it worked great for the first season but this second season it has around 4000 miles on it and nothing but problem after problem, how much CAD do you think i could get for it? If you can do CAD then USD? I will fix it up to brand new condition before i sell it, the body is in great shape.

    That was an honest review of the apex.
     
  12. FLYBYU

    FLYBYU VIP Member VIP Member

    Messages:
    1,479
    Location:
    south elgin, il
    it's a ground trigger ignition system. The red and white goes to ground while cranking
     
  13. yamahahaapex

    yamahahaapex TY 4 Stroke Master

    Messages:
    1,078
    Location:
    Yorkton Saskatchewan
    you must have a dud apex(yamaha) although the plastic may be cheap you have to remember, all these companies are focused about weight. I know many friends with F-8's and revs, etc that complain about the quality of their plastic. They also mentioned on how much more durable my dash area and side panels were compared to theirs. I agree the quality isnt the same as the old machines but then again can the same be said about those old machines? Alot of these newer machines are starting to rack up alot of miles with barely any problems. Of course by looking on this site you will find nothing but problems as this is a site that caters to this. But talk to others and you may have a different answer. With regular maintenance and proper care of your machine after EVERY ride I have yet to see a problem besides plugs and I have almost 7000kms. Some problems have come up but checking them before the ride saves alot of headache!
     
  14. ELLIOTlakeRX1

    ELLIOTlakeRX1 Newbie

    Messages:
    18
    Location:
    Elliot Lake, Ontario
    Hey my friend with an '03 RX1 just had this same problem, he stores his outside and went to start it on a cold morning and all it did was click, assuming it was the battery dead we took it out charged it and it still didnt work. So we brought it to my shop and below the airbox we jumped the solenoid and it fired up, so we let it sit inside over night, thinking we would wire up a starter switch to bypass the solenoid (temporarily of course, just to allow us to get in our first long haul of the year this weekend just past) and low and behold, we went in the shop the next morning and for a joke i turned the key, and the thing fired up!

    My thoughts on it were, possibly a build up of moisture in the solenoid maybe the seal coating is compromised, but anyhow i think its sleep indoors in the heated shop dethawed it, alowing the mechanical parts inside to move freely.

    Just thought i might add that, if you havent fixed your problems yet.

    DONT GIVE UP! i just got my '04 RX1 and have had about 6 different problems i can think of in the past 3 months, but i havent given up yet on it!
     

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