Arctic Cat put in a huge new engine building facility.
I don't see them leaving it lay idle.
I don't see them leaving it lay idle.
I'd buy a Procross with a Yamaha engine.
I was told Yamaha used the Cat 120 to fill a small demand from it's customers. The market is not large enough to justify a full production sled so they preordered 250 units from Cat to test the waters and fill the hole in the lineup. The 2009 deal with Cat opened the door for this kids sled . In other words,, I wouldn't hold my breath if your waiting for another YamaCat 
Ford has owned approx. 20% of Mazda since the 60's.
Chev has been in bed with Toyota since the 70's ,,Remember the Chevy nova from the early 80's ? = Toyota Corrola ! Japan got a rebadged Sunfire from Chev in the 90's. Now Toyota is using Subaru engines in the new FT series.
So ,, where does all this behind the scenes big business leave us ? I don't know about you guys but I can't help feeling a little insecure about buying anything based on brand loyalty anymore. It's a buyer beware world
Ford has owned approx. 20% of Mazda since the 60's.
Chev has been in bed with Toyota since the 70's ,,Remember the Chevy nova from the early 80's ? = Toyota Corrola ! Japan got a rebadged Sunfire from Chev in the 90's. Now Toyota is using Subaru engines in the new FT series.
So ,, where does all this behind the scenes big business leave us ? I don't know about you guys but I can't help feeling a little insecure about buying anything based on brand loyalty anymore. It's a buyer beware world
FrostyNutz said:I was told Yamaha used the Cat 120 to fill a small demand from it's customers. The market is not large enough to justify a full production sled so they preordered 250 units from Cat to test the waters and fill the hole in the lineup. The 2009 deal with Cat opened the door for this kids sled . In other words,, I wouldn't hold my breath if your waiting for another YamaCat
Ford has owned approx. 20% of Mazda since the 60's.
Chev has been in bed with Toyota since the 70's ,,Remember the Chevy nova from the early 80's ? = Toyota Corrola ! Japan got a rebadged Sunfire from Chev in the 90's. Now Toyota is using Subaru engines in the new FT series.
So ,, where does all this behind the scenes big business leave us ? I don't know about you guys but I can't help feeling a little insecure about buying anything based on brand loyalty anymore. It's a buyer beware world
Samsung makes all screens for Apple yet they sue the crap out of each other.. Business as usual just making sure you get license fees etc for variouse ip:s
whitedust1
TY 4 Stroke God
FrostyNutz said:I was told Yamaha used the Cat 120 to fill a small demand from it's customers. The market is not large enough to justify a full production sled so they preordered 250 units from Cat to test the waters and fill the hole in the lineup. The 2009 deal with Cat opened the door for this kids sled . In other words,, I wouldn't hold my breath if your waiting for another YamaCat
Ford has owned approx. 20% of Mazda since the 60's.
Chev has been in bed with Toyota since the 70's ,,Remember the Chevy nova from the early 80's ? = Toyota Corrola ! Japan got a rebadged Sunfire from Chev in the 90's. Now Toyota is using Subaru engines in the new FT series.
So ,, where does all this behind the scenes big business leave us ? I don't know about you guys but I can't help feeling a little insecure about buying anything based on brand loyalty anymore. It's a buyer beware world
250 Srts what a joke!!! How does that cover either AC or Yam costs? Does that include the blue paint or is that extra? lol Heck I could do that for Yam out of my garage.lol Those number make no sense at all for ROI.
Supply and demand plus yamahas msrp on the srx 120 is 3995.00......lol
whitedust1
TY 4 Stroke God
bottlerocket said:
You have to be kidding $4K for a kitty cat. I can pick one up for $500.lol
Sasquatch
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BADSLED said:
Like I said Doo only claims! Unless there has been a ruling I don't know about. Patent infringement is patent infringement! The industry is in constant state of stealing ideas. Doo stole from Polaris and gave them their patent for electronic reverse in trade. Doo also stole Simmons ski design and gave them 3 million dollars to settle. It was rulled that Doo did not change the design enough to claim it was not an infringement!
The court will decide if Cat did or did not steal the design from Doo! I'm not kidding you at all!
09nytro
TY 4 Stroke God
I don't think you will see a yamacat anytime soon
And I think they are a few years short on the 120 market you see used ones all over C-list for 800 to 1200
And I think they are a few years short on the 120 market you see used ones all over C-list for 800 to 1200
yamaha1973
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bottlerocket said:
i think you are joking but if your not its actually $50 less than a cat 120...
Heritage
Expert
I have also ehard this rumor from more than one source...again..just a rumor, so let's not read too much into it....or maybe we should...lol
Here is what I think (again..just speculation..probably won't happen)
I think there is something going on between cat and yamaha...I believe when suzuki is done...you will see the yamaha vector motor in a cat..both turboed, and non turboed.....I think cat also wants the rights to yamaha's HPDI.
I think cat will build their own 500, 600, and 800 two strokes with yamaha's hpdi on them to compete with ski-doo...and again will use yamaha's 3 cylinder 4 stroke..there isn't much difference in weight between cats suzuki 1100, and yamaha's vector motor (I'm talking motors here, not chassis, and overall weight)...Everyone keeps talking about cat building their own engines...I believe they will... but two strokes ONLY...4 strokes are too costly to build...and they would have to buy from somewhere...yamaha makes logical sense...but so does honda....either one of those two build a better motor than suzuki.
Keep in mind ONE THING....I know for a fact yamaha did test HPDI two strokes in snowmobiles earlier this decade. (I got this from a source that I would never question....I will never name him)...what they found at the time...was the motors were not very reliable...they had problems with them in extreme cold, and they blew up...alot....NOT acceptable at yamaha..they scraped the program. They also believed they would be too costly for consumers (yes I know what a new apex costs)... I believe this to be true...any of you who have ridden yamaha for years know two things:
They have and always will do things differently than anybody else.
AND....they try like heck to not release unreliable junk...Like everybody else yamaha has had a few lemons...but for the most part..they live up to their reliability record. (ride and handling is another story...but getting better)
Take it for what its worth...Yamaha will probably never build another two stroke snowmobile....CAT however will....and to compete with ski-doo they need DFI...yamaha has it, and very reliable four strokes that they can shoe horn into their new chassis. Even if yamaha thinks DFI two strokes are not good...cat wants it...you have to admit yamaha is not wrong about HPDI...took a good look at the problems ski-doo has had with the ETECs.
Just my two cents...lol...and BTW I'd buy a new cat crosstour tomorrow, if it had a vector motor.
Here is what I think (again..just speculation..probably won't happen)
I think there is something going on between cat and yamaha...I believe when suzuki is done...you will see the yamaha vector motor in a cat..both turboed, and non turboed.....I think cat also wants the rights to yamaha's HPDI.
I think cat will build their own 500, 600, and 800 two strokes with yamaha's hpdi on them to compete with ski-doo...and again will use yamaha's 3 cylinder 4 stroke..there isn't much difference in weight between cats suzuki 1100, and yamaha's vector motor (I'm talking motors here, not chassis, and overall weight)...Everyone keeps talking about cat building their own engines...I believe they will... but two strokes ONLY...4 strokes are too costly to build...and they would have to buy from somewhere...yamaha makes logical sense...but so does honda....either one of those two build a better motor than suzuki.
Keep in mind ONE THING....I know for a fact yamaha did test HPDI two strokes in snowmobiles earlier this decade. (I got this from a source that I would never question....I will never name him)...what they found at the time...was the motors were not very reliable...they had problems with them in extreme cold, and they blew up...alot....NOT acceptable at yamaha..they scraped the program. They also believed they would be too costly for consumers (yes I know what a new apex costs)... I believe this to be true...any of you who have ridden yamaha for years know two things:
They have and always will do things differently than anybody else.
AND....they try like heck to not release unreliable junk...Like everybody else yamaha has had a few lemons...but for the most part..they live up to their reliability record. (ride and handling is another story...but getting better)
Take it for what its worth...Yamaha will probably never build another two stroke snowmobile....CAT however will....and to compete with ski-doo they need DFI...yamaha has it, and very reliable four strokes that they can shoe horn into their new chassis. Even if yamaha thinks DFI two strokes are not good...cat wants it...you have to admit yamaha is not wrong about HPDI...took a good look at the problems ski-doo has had with the ETECs.
Just my two cents...lol...and BTW I'd buy a new cat crosstour tomorrow, if it had a vector motor.
Heritage
Expert
I should add....I think yamaha is going to be done in the snowmobile business by model year 2015....no new models this year...no new models next year.
That is why I believe this cat rumor has some teeth to it...and it does make sense.
Japanese companies do not keep investing in non profitable ventures...snowmobiles are probably the least profitable thing yamaha makes.
I can easily see them getting out, and just building engines for cat.
That is why I believe this cat rumor has some teeth to it...and it does make sense.
Japanese companies do not keep investing in non profitable ventures...snowmobiles are probably the least profitable thing yamaha makes.
I can easily see them getting out, and just building engines for cat.
whitedust1
TY 4 Stroke God
Difficult to think AC will mess with a dirty 2s 600 engine when next EPA requirment is 2016. Sooner or later injected 2s will hit the wall regarding lubrication if not there already. Yam 4s will have no problem meeting 2016 EPA & beyond requirements & probably have next generation 4s snowmobile engines good to go. I have been in OEM biz all my sales & marketing life & if it makes sense to us it is a slam dunk at management level. It is all about profitability & doing what you do best which for Yamaha Motor Corp is to produce engines & Cat to manaufacture chassis & drop OEM supplier engines in their platforms. This partnership makes sooooooooo much sense to both parties how can it not happen??
Heritage, the Phazer has already had it's replacement designed and built, they just held off from
releasing it for 2013 because of too many 11's and 12's left to sell is what has been stated. Yamaha has been in the game for 40 something years , I don't think they are baling out. They know who their customer base is and cater to them.
releasing it for 2013 because of too many 11's and 12's left to sell is what has been stated. Yamaha has been in the game for 40 something years , I don't think they are baling out. They know who their customer base is and cater to them.
whitedust1
TY 4 Stroke God
8-12% of the new snowmobile market is not enough for Yamaha to continue certainley there will be no retooling for next generation of sleds with that type of market share. Yamaha could continue to coast for 2 more years then hit us with something big that would blow us away but I'm not sure snowmobiling is where you want to invest with warm snowless winters. Sure you can spend $8k on a new sled but those cheapo sleds do not interest me but $15K for state of the art snowmobile not going to happen either. The AC Cross Tour turbo is a nice sled but way over priced as well. I see tuff row to hoe for new snowmobiles with this winter that never was non current inventory is huge & many sleds did not get used much & in some cases not at all. I understand that Yamaha sells a very good machine in everyway but falling way behind in weight reduction. I would still consider Yamaha if buying new & Vector is right in there for 120 riders but not enough HP for me & I don't need 160ish Apex HP & premium gas so for me there is a gap between Vector & Apex for something new.
