Judging Interest for a Supercharger kit for the Viper.

[Riceburner]

For me that is the main reason I'm doing a turbo on mine because I am basically just looking for more power/ speed in a drag race. I'm only concerned about straight line performance and I don't think for me at least that I would benefit any more with a sc over a turbo.

Two different things', speed & winning a Drag Race. You want speed. Get the Turbo.
Drag racing it depends totally on the length of the Race.
In 660' , the Turbo hasn't a chance against the Supercharger with equal hp, or much of a chance even with 50 + hp more.
If under 1/4 mile you want the Super Charger.
If you are lake racing or racing over 1/4 mile you probably want the Turbo.
There is a reason dragsters run Superchargers !
Turbo's have a lot of advantages & i'm not selling mine anytime soon. But a Supercharger will be my next boosted purchase because I want Zero lag again & more linear power down low.

 

[kviper]

More HP to 35 mph, that's not much above clutch engagement. We were at Ulmer's on the Dyno and saw the same thing between my sled and a 07 Attak with stage one MPI super. Now on the snow with launch master on my 200 kit at 5.5 LB and the super pullied for 9-10 LB mine was every bit as quick out of the hole and would pull away from there on up. The only advantage to a super is instant throttle response, if that's what gets it for you that's fine but a super is not as efficient as a Turbo. There is a reason the quickest and fastest sled in the world run Turbo's. Clutching, boost control (much more managable with a Turbo)and in any sled traction is key. Another advantage to aTurbos efficiency is fuel milage. Personally after riding both I would not spend more $ for a super. That said my thing is drag racing and I don't mind a little more mild mannered trail sled.

 

[YamahaTim]

See Matt's post above. The SC kit will make up to 12 psi of boost. That 240 hp plus.

12 pounds at elevation, or at sea level?

 

[northof50]

Looks like I will be putting some cash away for this!

 

[TD Max]

We have been bouncing this question around for awhile now. The turbo on the Viper has been a huge success this year. I've been asked several times if we are going to do a supercharger kit. We've mocked one up and its defiantly doable. The supercharger is defiantly more expensive to produce. So with that said how many guys would pay $5995.00 for a supercharger kit? Its a huge commitment to build a supercharger kit and do it right. If interest is there we'll do. I would love to hear your feedback.

A lot depends on how the sled treats me. Last sled I owned was a 2000 model. I told myself getting back in that I would buy good used taking someone to the cleaners and ride cheap. Now I have a LE YamaCat on order as well as a Renegade with the 900ACE. My problem in my younger years was running to hard and on the edge too often. My guess is that the Viper will be fine for me as is, BUT I could never ride a stock Harley. I need 3 figures TQ and HP.

So I have a few questions:

1) Does the SC packaging help with the whole breather icing deal or is the drain layout similar? (I assume the SC shares crankcase oil with the engine)
2) Any comparative dyno charts of a SC versus TC?
3) low octane options?
4) Is there a serious MPG loss if ridden conservatively? Compared to TC?
5) Is there much "control" to get the SC sled to hook up or is it just prone to blowing off the track and tearing out studs and lugs?

 

[stingray719]

A lot depends on how the sled treats me. Last sled I owned was a 2000 model. I told myself getting back in that I would buy good used taking someone to the cleaners and ride cheap. Now I have a LE YamaCat on order as well as a Renegade with the 900ACE. My problem in my younger years was running to hard and on the edge too often. My guess is that the Viper will be fine for me as is, BUT I could never ride a stock Harley. I need 3 figures TQ and HP.

So I have a few questions:

1) Does the SC packaging help with the whole breather icing deal or is the drain layout similar? (I assume the SC shares crankcase oil with the engine)
2) Any comparative dyno charts of a SC versus TC?
3) low octane options?
4) Is there a serious MPG loss if ridden conservatively? Compared to TC?
5) Is there much "control" to get the SC sled to hook up or is it just prone to blowing off the track and tearing out studs and lugs?

I will let Matt answer those questions but I would like to comment on number 5. I have had a SC Nytro, SC Phazer and a TC Phazer. The SC Nytro was the 270hp setup and what I did and suggest to do is soften the secondary clutch spring until you ge the takeoff you want. When I got mine it was used with about 700 miles on the sled and the previous owner had it set up to do nothnig but dig holes, so I adjusted it until it spun the track about like a stock sled from takeoff anyways. If you pop the throttle off and slam it hard from like 40 mph it will still dig a hole...lol.

 

[Riceburner]

A lot depends on how the sled treats me. Last sled I owned was a 2000 model. I told myself getting back in that I would buy good used taking someone to the cleaners and ride cheap. Now I have a LE YamaCat on order as well as a Renegade with the 900ACE. My problem in my younger years was running to hard and on the edge too often. My guess is that the Viper will be fine for me as is, BUT I could never ride a stock Harley. I need 3 figures TQ and HP.

So I have a few questions:

1) Does the SC packaging help with the whole breather icing deal or is the drain layout similar? (I assume the SC shares crankcase oil with the engine)
2) Any comparative dyno charts of a SC versus TC?
3) low octane options?
4) Is there a serious MPG loss if ridden conservatively? Compared to TC?
5) Is there much "control" to get the SC sled to hook up or is it just prone to blowing off the track and tearing out studs and lugs?

My Sled on Ulmers track Dyno. Second chart is 10.5 psi of boost. Divide by .55 ish for crank HP. [ Say 275 hp.]

http://www.ty4stroke.com/threads/2011-apex-with-mcx-290-kit-what-a-beast.107360/

Old RX 1 dyno chart from MPI. Probably need to add around 30 + hp to that # to compensate for starting with 2011 Apex engine vs RX 1 and spinning 500 more RPM on my Apex. [Say 260 ish hp.]

http://www.mountainperformance.com/images/Blower_Stock_pub.jpg

The difference is explained by 2 things. It takes some hp to run the supercharger & MCX seems to be able to get more than 10 hp out of their Turbos per lb of boost.

MPI Supercharger has its own oiling system & does not share the engine oil like my MCX Turbo does.

Ridden conservatively; my experience is 10% ish mileage loss on the Supercharged sled vs no mileage loss on the Turbo sled .

Not sure what you mean by low octane options but I can say it is a piece of cake to compensate for low octane on my Turbo vs my former SC RX 1.
On my Turbo I just take the Boost down to 8 psi by hitting a button on my AEM Tru boost controller and poof I can safely run 87 as long as I don't do any long WFO runs. I know of people who have put on bleed screws to lower boost on SC sleds, so it can be done but is not real common.

All in the set up to get traction on the SC sled. My old RX 1 is set up right and it definately does not blow out the track & lauches like jack the bear.

Kviper is absolutely correct that the Launchmaster will fix the drag race issue on a Turbo and the Turbo has many advantages which we both mentioned. Be that as it may, I still miss the instant linear response of my SC RX 1 on the trail.

 

[Studroes144]

I recall a few years ago lining up against a sc nytro xtx and a couple procross cat turbos. There was also a procross 800 with D&D 901 kit. Decided I'd try to line up once with my apex. I lined up once and then just watched cuz it was a total waste of gas even trying lol but anyways, running around 1/2-3/4 of a mile. The cat turbo 220hp flash and stutter button against 180 sc nytro were basically dead even the whole way. The takeoff always looked like the two came out dead even for as far as you could see. Basically to go along with my other comment. I think even in a straight line drag race, the viper will not really benefit much if any having a sc over a turbo because the chassis itself is setup so well. I'd like to bet that a 180 turbo viper would be faster off the line than a 180 sc nytro because of how awesome the viper chassis is. For the record the 901 kit was always out of the hole much faster than the other sleds and could easily hold the boosted sleds off for 1000' but that was a perfect running sled that was prolly running in the 170-180hp range

 

[kviper]

Two main reason's a super makes much less HP than a Turbo. Main one is it takes 2+ LB boost to run the blower (that's 20-22 HP on an efficient turbo) and that is exactly what we saw on the Dyno. The MCX made about 215HP at 5.5 LB and the super made 198HP at 6.5LB. The second is a super producees higher charge air temp's= less HP and brings on detonation quicker.

 

[Studroes144]

And with this already screwy ecu calibration it's def not worth hotter air temps and risk getting some bad engine knock.

 

[Riceburner]

Two main reason's a super makes much less HP than a Turbo. Main one is it takes 2+ LB boost to run the blower (that's 20-22 HP on an efficient turbo) and that is exactly what we saw on the Dyno. The MCX made about 215HP at 5.5 LB and the super made 198HP at 6.5LB. The second is a super producees higher charge air temp's= less HP and brings on detonation quicker.

Interesting. I thought it was around 10hp to run a SC. [1 psi boost] MPI's Dyno run of the RX 1 stock vs Supercharged I posted above shows about 6.4 hp I thought to run the SC.

MCX Turbo's appear to be very efficient and appear to deliver more than promised. On Ulmers Dyno your 200 kit makes 215 hp and my 290 kit on his Dyno made over 320.

 

[kviper]

I think Allan mentioned the amount of boost to run a super and as I said that's pretty much what we saw. MCX kit's are efficient and on snow I think they do even a little better with snow on the tunnel cooler.

 

[Riceburner]

I agree fully on the MCX's with the under tunnel cooler.

We took temperature guns out one day with my MCX Apex, MPI SC 6.5 psi Apex & my old SC 12 psi RX 1.

My MCX Apex air to air Intercooler was the same as ambient temperature, SC 6.5 psi Apex about 15 degrees higher & RX 1 was 70 degrees higher. 30, 45 & 100 degrees F respectively.

I probably should just get a Studder box [Launchmaster] for racing & play with the Tru boost some more to minimize the trail lag & call it a day.
I guess I dont need to pull the ski's in the air at every little trail bump. I should be happy enough with skis in the air from 0 to 120 mph.

Thanks for reminding me of a few things I had forgotten about. [ gettin old !!! ]

 

[MrSled]

I want one but we need answers

 

[kviper]

Getting old for sure, just to much cool stuff for a guy my age to take in. Riceburner if you look at my showcase pix and look close at the one of my gauges you can see two momentary switches between the grip and high beam switch. The bottom black one is the launch master and the red one I am going to use for the scramble boost part of the true boost. That way I can come off the launch master at about .5 LB and it hits 5.5 in less than one second, than when it hooks push the red button for what ever boost you wan't. Bringing a lot of boost right away digs a big hole to climb out of and for a longer pereod of time. The blip the throttle response of a super can't be duplicated by a turbo but the controllability of boost and eficency from a turbo is what makes it shine.