lost rpm

[max rolph]

soo went out today with new XS827 belt..... broke in for 30 min on off throttle, temps at -5 n light snow, data logged and stored and analized after 4 hr ride. in morning when temps were cool was spiking out of hole to 92-9300 then drops to 8600 and climbs to 88-8900 on trail conditions and nboost at full throttle were 20-22psi. which i would call perfect... but need a little more angle on helix initial to hold rpm dwn at start... even on a roll on and then pin it it would over shoot then drop to 8500 and climb up to 8800.
then as ride and temps went up and belt wore in a bit say 100miles, rpms dropped to 8500-8600 and slowly climbed, took 2 screws out(-5.2grms) got a 100 more rpm but not enough, seams also at mid throttle i can get boost up to 23-25psi with just a little jab on throttle but wot it stays in the 20-22 range, even running 97 octane it did have a 2deg timing retard on one of the logs in mid range at 13.7afr. hard to readthese fnlogs on and iphone or my note pad, how do you send and open on computer??

all in all these XS belts do bring rpm dwn once broken in, yesterday i ran cat 112 and had rpm always. but need a 50/36 helix now. headed for 4 day trip this thurs to northern quebec. also need a final tune from Ben to control this over boost in mid range.

 

[sideshowBob]

hard to readthese fnlogs on and iphone or my note pad, how do you send and open on computer?

I couldn't agree more. I am used to the the PC5/POD 300 data logging I currently have on my Yama charged Apex and also had on my Stage 3 SC Apex really user friendly...the data logging I have on my SW is like a foreign language to me.

 

[KnappAttack]

Take the phone or iPad and zoom in on the logs, nothing to it, you can see exactly what is happening, just zoom in to a certain area you want to see. Chose the items you want to look at ect. I log every time the engine Starts and runs and it gets logged every time.

You need to play with it and use it to get used to it all.

Its really a nice log and reminds me of my high end RacePac data system. Even looks the same.

 

[sideshowBob]

Take the phone or iPad and zoom in on the logs, nothing to it, you can see exactly what is happening, just zoom in to a certain area you want to see. Chose the items you want to look at ect. I log every time the engine Starts and runs and it gets logged every time.

You need to play with it and use it to get used to it all.

Its really a nice log and reminds me of my high end RacePac data system. Even looks the same.

I really find it a bit confusing. I must admit I need tutoring on the data logging.
Does it log everything if so is there not a limit? If I only want to log a 660 ft full throttle run how do I do it?
Can I turn data logging off and then activate it only for a certain run?
I have not been using or referring to it as I don't find it instinctive.

 

[fatchance]

I really find it a bit confusing. I must admit I need tutoring on the data logging.
Does it log everything if so is there not a limit? If I only want to log a 660 ft full throttle run how do I do it?
Can I turn data logging off and then activate it only for a certain run?
I have not been using or referring to it as I don't find it instinctive.

It will log the entire time the engine is on if set to do that, then from there you can hit the save button to break up certain runs or rides.

 

[fatchance]

but with a bad map sensor would it not run like crap all the time?? mine starts ... runs great... just no RPM increase or very little increase going from 285 tune to a 330 tune/17psi to 20psi... runs good at all spots just wont pull rpm.

Is the 3Bar MAP sensor the 2 piece nipple type with O-ring or the newer type with the plastic nipple formed in the body? I was tearing my hair out searching for boost leaks and as it turned out it was this O-Ring fitting loosely in the aluminum nipple. If i hadn't already purchased a new one suspecting this was the problem i would just put some RTV sealant in the fitting and let it set up.
My boost would dance all over the place and after replacing the 3Bar Sensor my boost is a flat line.

 

[fatchance]

soo went out today with new XS827 belt..... broke in for 30 min on off throttle, temps at -5 n light snow, data logged and stored and analized after 4 hr ride. in morning when temps were cool was spiking out of hole to 92-9300 then drops to 8600 and climbs to 88-8900 on trail conditions and nboost at full throttle were 20-22psi. which i would call perfect... but need a little more angle on helix initial to hold rpm dwn at start... even on a roll on and then pin it it would over shoot then drop to 8500 and climb up to 8800.
then as ride and temps went up and belt wore in a bit say 100miles, rpms dropped to 8500-8600 and slowly climbed, took 2 screws out(-5.2grms) got a 100 more rpm but not enough, seams also at mid throttle i can get boost up to 23-25psi with just a little jab on throttle but wot it stays in the 20-22 range, even running 97 octane it did have a 2deg timing retard on one of the logs in mid range at 13.7afr. hard to readthese fnlogs on and iphone or my note pad, how do you send and open on computer??

all in all these XS belts do bring rpm dwn once broken in, yesterday i ran cat 112 and had rpm always. but need a 50/36 helix now. headed for 4 day trip this thurs to northern quebec. also need a final tune from Ben to control this over boost in mid range.

So what's in your TAPP for weight now? Sounds like 2 bolts total in the arms and empty short roller bolts? What size rollers? Must be +2mm right?
Take the bolts out of the arms and add the weight back on to the roller bolts. I saw this same scenario with mine when adding a little too much weight to the arms as far as the RPM goes. I did not have overboost, but i also never held the throttle for long distances.

 

[max rolph]

i have the +1 roller and just two allen screws on opposite arms, 46/34 helix and green snow pro in sec. with the cat belt i had to have 4 screws andf still got 9000 out of it, but this XS827 belt i prob need to run empty and clicker 4 ... to see 8900 ..., funny thing is when sled 1st got done i had xs829 on it and 4 washers and med bolt and saw 8800 ...dunno why it wont pull more weight now with XS827, then again i havent tryed it with that combo in it since i switched. i thought the roller bolts and washers have more effect on higher rpm... thats why i added screws instead as they say it effects low end. i know the 827 is stickier

 

[max rolph]

Is the 3Bar MAP sensor the 2 piece nipple type with O-ring or the newer type with the plastic nipple formed in the body? I was tearing my hair out searching for boost leaks and as it turned out it was this O-Ring fitting loosely in the aluminum nipple. If i hadn't already purchased a new one suspecting this was the problem i would just put some RTV sealant in the fitting and let it set up.
My boost would dance all over the place and after replacing the 3Bar Sensor my boost is a flat line.

im not sure which one it is, im assuming its the GAP one as thats what TD puts in, my Boost is all over and not linear unless you hold wide open then it just shoots to 20-22psi other times even at mid throttle it can jump to 25 easy.

 

[max rolph]

Take the phone or iPad and zoom in on the logs, nothing to it, you can see exactly what is happening, just zoom in to a certain area you want to see. Chose the items you want to look at ect. I log every time the engine Starts and runs and it gets logged every time.

You need to play with it and use it to get used to it all.

Its really a nice log and reminds me of my high end RacePac data system. Even looks the same.

i know how to pinch and zoom out and look at it but it some times reverts back to compressed and i would just love to be able to view on my computer. bigger screen.

 

[justinator]

im not sure which one it is, im assuming its the GAP one as thats what TD puts in, my Boost is all over and not linear unless you hold wide open then it just shoots to 20-22psi other times even at mid throttle it can jump to 25 easy.

Im pretty sure The quick spike your seeing in boost is normal with the max spool tunes. Ben had mentioned it in a post on this site at one point. My max spool 16 tune would snap 20psi then settle to 17.5-17.8psi, my max spool 17 does the same thing.......spikes to 20-20.5psi then settles to 17.8-18.2 . Read Bens reply on this post
https://ty4stroke.com/threads/td-ma...s-on-hard-accell-is-this-normal.155344/page-2

 

[fatchance]

i have the +1 roller and just two allen screws on opposite arms, 46/34 helix and green snow pro in sec. with the cat belt i had to have 4 screws andf still got 9000 out of it, but this XS827 belt i prob need to run empty and clicker 4 ... to see 8900 ..., funny thing is when sled 1st got done i had xs829 on it and 4 washers and med bolt and saw 8800 ...dunno why it wont pull more weight now with XS827, then again i havent tryed it with that combo in it since i switched. i thought the roller bolts and washers have more effect on higher rpm... thats why i added screws instead as they say it effects low end. i know the 827 is stickier

I'm not too familiar with those tunes, but here's what i do know.
Everybody i talked to said the TAPP grabbed like crazy and knowing that i had my stock primary working so well i swapped it out straight up and kept the secondary the same.
I am clutched very similar to your set up with a Dalton 45/33 in the secondary. I'll spare all the details and just say the "empty TAPP" will not grab this kind of power and i have found pretty quickly that it likes weight on the roller bolts first then add to the arms. I had good marking on the TAPP as it was slipping and it helped pinpoint what needed to be done

AND P.S. Don't overlook what i said about the 3Bar sensor it only takes 5 minutes to check

 

[max rolph]

I'm not too familiar with those tunes, but here's what i do know.
Everybody i talked to said the TAPP grabbed like crazy and knowing that i had my stock primary working so well i swapped it out straight up and kept the secondary the same.
I am clutched very similar to your set up with a Dalton 45/33 in the secondary. I'll spare all the details and just say the "empty TAPP" will not grab this kind of power and i have found pretty quickly that it likes weight on the roller bolts first then add to the arms. I had good marking on the TAPP as it was slipping and it helped pinpoint what needed to be done

AND P.S. Don't overlook what i said about the 3Bar sensor it only takes 5 minutes to check

Thanks , TD has sent me a new 4 bar sensor to put in and they are sending tune for it. where can you buy locally a 3 bar sensor? who carries? also what have you got for weight in primary? is your sec a STM?, i have dalton sending me a 50/36 to try and get this out of hole flash of 9300 dwn, i tried to get a 48/34 or 50/34 and they dont have. after the XS belt broke in , my rpm is dwn at 8600 again. with only the 2 screws and +1 roller

 

[fatchance]

Your MAP sensor HAS to be from your tuner. I am running the stock secondary. So far i have added 18 grams to my TAPP w/+1 rollers and have had to reduce the belt tension to prevent primary slippage.
I have not run a spring this wimpy in the secondary for 3 years

 

[max rolph]

Ben ...swears by having that stiff snow pro in sec and the 46/36 helix STM... a little dif from yamaha, i found on the long runs mine liked the sprin in sec possision and he wants in 4th, the belt is soo cool in the 2nd hole. what is your 18 grams consit of per arm