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Methanol Injection discussion

kinger

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Joined
Jan 17, 2005
Messages
7,392
Location
Clear Lake, IA
Website
www.piergenius.com
Not sure how many people are here anymore but I wanted to start a thread on Meth injection I will be sure to document my install and tuning of it in my garage thread but I wanted this to be a place for people to share their experience and what they liked/disliked and part recommendations. install, etc.

I will start:
Looking at using a direct port set up with 4 nozzles from Devils Own (DO), with a drilled hole in my MPI intercooler and screwing them into that in front of each TB. Pump would be mounted in clutch side footwell with relays re-positioned, and tank would be the 7 QT Whal Bros tank mounted in the rear of the tunnel on my 151 extension.
Parts would be:
DO 300 psi pump
DO D03 nozzles X4 + 4 port manifold
DO Check valve
Whal Bros 7qt tank - likely last all season
AEM up to 35 psi controller - set up to start spraying at 20 psi and be full spray by 24 psi with max boost at 28/29 psi.
Some sort of failsafe wired to the Motec to pull timing and boost automatically

I would like to control the pump with a output from the Motec but I am out of outputs now :confused: so that is why the use of the AEM controller with built in MAP.

Thoughts?
 

Electric pumps like to push, not pull. Having a tank in the rear with g- forces pushing against it (or climbing a mountain) may cause starvation issues.
 
UPDATE: Like anything after more research and some help from others I pieced together a DIRECT PORT 50/50 methanol injection kit. I will have 4 nozzles spraying right at each throttle body. I used the following and it was a challenge because of different companies out of different parts.

1. Pro Meth direct port nylon kit with inline distribution block and solenoid. Hopefully this helps someone someday but I went with a solenoid vs a check valve because I am going to use the Motec to control the PWM output to the solenoid and it takes MUCH less current then sending a PWM signal to the pump and trying to run the pump as a progressive kit. Both work but I think the solenoid will be faster response and more accurate for my application. This kit does NOT come with nozzles, pump, filter, or tube, I just like the nozzle holders as they are low profile. $~280

2. Nozzles I wanted Devils Own but their web site stinks and wouldn't take my order then I see they are out of stock. So I went with Snow performance 2.5 GPH nozzles. This will flow enough for around 600hp. Basically if you want 600hp you need 600 cc/min injector, if you do the math converison from 2.5 GPH to cc/min you get around 157 *4 injectors = 628 cc/min. This will take some trial and error here I may need much larger nozzles I am not sure, with the DO kit those nozzles were 370 cc EACH and I know at least one person running that on a RX1 so I either need more or he is injecting way to much water/meth. So I got the Snow Perfomance nozzles (4), pump, filter, tank tap and some 1/4" nylon tubing for $~380. This will be everything I need but a Tank.

3. I think I am going to add the AEM meth fail safe gauge this uses a turbine sensor in it to measure actual flow. I can set up tables in my Motec software to respond to this. So if it sees NO flow it will cut all turbo boost out, and I will run on 91 with just the blower and be safe. This will also let me see how much the progressive system is actually pumping. I can also link it to knock and make sure if adds more as a compensation if it sees any knock. I may just set it up to see the data first year and understand the variation before I actually use it to cut power. I am worried that in cold temps or something I don't know about it will flow less and the Motec will pull all the Wastegate and leave me with a pooch for the weekend especially if it's just normal behavior.

Lastly specific to my sled and the Motec M400 engine management I am out of inputs and outputs but didn't want to use the AEM so I had to purchase a I/O expander called a Motec E888 which connects via the 2 wire canbus. This will allow me to connect literally anything I want and I can control 8 outputs. I will use up 2 for the meth. Current plan for this expander:

PWM output 1 will turn on meth pump at 12 psi by sending a signal to my PDM which will then power the pump with NO relay. Pretty cool!
PWM output 2 will then send a ground signal to the solenoid at varying rates per my table. I am thinking something like 20% at 13 psi, 50% at 15 psi, 100% at 18+ psi. What is cool here is I can configure this based on ANY signal in from the Motec. So I can do it by speed, or on a timer, or RPM, etc. I can also set up a knock compensation table to add some if it sees knock no matter what.

I am also going to add a pressure sensor on my distribution block after the solenoid to measure pressure while spraying. This will use a more accurate honeywell PXL sensor and what I will use to put the sled into limp mode if its not spraying. Also going to add a pressure sensor on the turbo before the SC to monitor what boost it is actually making vs what my MAP see's after its compounded should make for some interesting data. Especially part throttle and cruising tuning, very cool. Motec life rules!
 


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