Michigan Trail Signage CHANGES!!

[EnticerRider]

Got my MSA mag today , Very disappointed in the decision to remove several important signs from the trail .
Deer crossing
Narrow trail
bridge ahead
Winding trail (s curve ) sign
ALL CHEVRON"S
two way traffic
Narrow Bridge


I believe this makes it inherently more dangerous to ride all together.
Anyone thinking this is a great idea has never ridden a snowmobile .
It will change the way we ride but also, thee speed racers shouldn't cause the whole snowmobiling population of Michigan to be less safe.
I also heard the reasoning for this is to keep anyone from being liable in the case of a corner not being signed properly under the previous rules.

Not excited at all why take down signs and throw them away to "MAKE US SAFER" is what the article in MSA said.

I love the sport but this is disturbing why pay 45 dollars for a trail permit and another 65 for registration just so they can make our trails more primitive. What a crock of crap .
Might be the last nail in the coffin for me.
I don't ride over my head as I ride near the back of my group. But corners will still be signed but NO CURVES "any change in directions of less than 90 degrees".

 

[Irv]

Got my MSA mag today , Very disappointed in the decision to remove several important signs from the trail .
Deer crossing
Narrow trail
bridge ahead
Winding trail (s curve ) sign
ALL CHEVRON"S
two way traffic
Narrow Bridge


I believe this makes it inherently more dangerous to ride all together.
Anyone thinking this is a great idea has never ridden a snowmobile .
It will change the way we ride but also, thee speed racers shouldn't cause the whole snowmobiling population of Michigan to be less safe.
I also heard the reasoning for this is to keep anyone from being liable in the case of a corner not being signed properly under the previous rules.

Not excited at all why take down signs and throw them away to "MAKE US SAFER" is what the article in MSA said.

I love the sport but this is disturbing why pay 45 dollars for a trail permit and another 65 for registration just so they can make our trails more primitive. What a crock of crap .
Might be the last nail in the coffin for me.
I don't ride over my head as I ride near the back of my group. But corners will still be signed but NO CURVES "any change in directions of less than 90 degrees".

Not good at all imo, here in Ontario we are going the other way as far as signage and safety go.

Not sure who made the decisions you're talking about but it is definitely a step backwards and then some imo

 

[Scooter02]

Is there any contact information on who to address our concerns about this. Maybe, if they get bombarded with emails stating that this is a horrible decision it might change their minds. I personally think that this a way to save time with marking trails and money. Which I think is BS since they keep raising the trail pass fee.

 

[4Fighter]

I concur. DUMB! I don't know who's worse: The people who think this is a good idea, or the people who listen to them? Who did the study, UC Berkley?

First THEY ban soda pop, deep-fried pie, Bake-sales, etc... because they think it makes people too fat. Now trail signs because THEY think it makes people too fast!? Hmmm...I'll bet the study actually reveals that most HIKERS are offended by the signage spoiling the view of the forest come spring. Otherwise, you'd leave them up. Apparently you have to take the ones that cause people to ride fast, down now. This coming from a state that forces people to wear safety belts in a car, or fine them $100 but doesn't seem to care if you don't wear a helmets on a motorcycle (At least you can still have SOME say over how you live your life in that respect).

I can see two things coming out of this:

1. People who know the trails won't comply with said expectations.
2. People who don't will be in the trees, or worse.

Pure Michigan

 

[RoyalBlue]

I heard thru the Grapevine that the MSA Show / Swap will be at Martin Dragway,Martin Mi this weekend , maybe someone could chime in with some answers , the MSA crew should be there.

 

[Mazz]

I'm with you 4Fighter, those that are going to be in the trees are going to be there with or without signage. I say keep the signage so the law abiding among us can be as safe as possible.

 

[dox06]

signs

I agree with the group as well. Yeah there was a time when I use to ride faster at times in the trail than I should have, but I would have to say the signs were definately something that was great to know what the trail changes ahead. Saying that I think they no signs mighht slow some down, but the other want to be racers are going to be still "winning" the race in their own minds. The problem is those are the ones we are going to be wrapped around the trees or wosre pilled into your and my sleds due to the fact they had to Oh Sh-t" reaction coming into a corner they were not aware was coming and end up all over the trail, more than they were before.

I said it before and this confirms it. It is safer to ride on a race track or illegally off trail, then to be on trail with the weekend warrior racers.

As for the comment of the state making you have to wear your seat belt, well give it a couple months and that will probably be a thing of the past.

 

[Rockmeister]

This is entirely stupid.

They need to remove the liability from allowing people to use the trails, not make them more dangerous to "prevent lawsuits".

The same logic could be applied to the streets.
Remove all signs from the roads so the state can't be sued.
No Chevrons, no Curve Signs, no Arrows, nothing.
How stupid does that sound?

As for the state(s) removing the seat belt laws, no way. Will never happen.
Once they see a revenue stream, it will never go away.

I have a sick feeling this is planned to head that way.
The crash rate & fatalities will rise, so instead of using common sense and signing the trails, they will have a reason to impose a speed limit.
That way the state & local governments have another constant revenue stream from tickets.
(Look at the receipt next time you get a ticket, see how many organizations get a cut from it.)

Please, join MSA and let them know what you think this is nuts!
(Even if you don't join, let them know!)

MSA
http://www.msasnow.org/
616.361.2285

Rock

 

[Nick1945]

Well said Rock

 

[mdkuni]

I see no logic in the sign removal. Why don't we remove stop signs while we are at it and just make our whole riding experience a guessing game. What a joke. I am very disappointed in the fact that the MSA is standing behind this. They are supposed to be helping snowmobilers not making things worse. Volunteers have spent a lot of unpaid hours getting the signage right, and now it is for nothing. Those same volunteers will now spend countless hours taking it all down. Makes me want to cancel my MSA membership.

 

[dox06]

signs

I just see the snowmobile accidents and death count from it going up. Not to mention the number of lawsuits that will come of this due to, "my baby died from no signs marking the corners." (just saying ) Not sure exactly what their thoughts were on this.


Not to keep hitting on this part of the topic that was touched on either, but there is a move in the state right now to change the seat belt law AGAIN. All law enforcement agencies were contacted last week and advised there was a potential change coming to the law. The state gets money from the federal goverment (OHSP) to put on the seat belt programs and towards the overtime to departments to work the seat belt zones. Each time a seat belt zone is worked the agencies have to turn in documentation as to how many tickets for SB violations are issued. As long as there was a large number of tickets being issued the federal grant money was coming in. I can say from my area, the number of SB violation tickets have lessened. Thus the potential new changes to the SB law. Do I feel the state will drop the law, NO. Do I believe you will see the SB law change back to a secondary reasoning for a stop, YES.

As for the dollar amount that agencies get from tickets, dont believe for a minute that the money goes to the departments. Um. a hundred dollar ticket makes the departmet roughly twenty dollars. The rest goes to the courts and state.
(sorry to change the topic off the signs)

 

[EnticerRider]

I am a MSA member and I am not sure I will renew. I will see them in November at the Novi snow show.
I will be letting everyone know.
Sorry man this is asking for serious trouble.
If they want give me a damn speed limit to be enforced.
So what I might get busted a few times a year. Beats being in the hospital cause some one took you out on a no longer signed curve or a bridge that was no longer marked.
AT LEAST put up SLOW signs 350 ft before ie" bridges and sharp curves"
Give me some kinda warning even if it is just a slow sign.
MSA can get bent, I know of a few bridges on long straight trails that will result in pile ups as they willl have no warnings posting bridge ahead.
Imagine a single wide bridge with bunch of sledders piling up as the all try to avoid the bridge at 70-80mph on a several mile long straight away.

 

[benjamingvsu]

After more reading over the last few months I don't think the curves are going to be as badas I originally though.

However, bridges will be a problem.

I also know the rail trail at pellston airport drifts bad, and can be hard to see in certain lighting conditions - expect some accidents there this year due to the elimination of the Drift Area sign.

I also think these changes will make the trails less enjoyable and less safe, which will cause less new people in the sport and send mroe people off trail ( where we already have too many trespassing issues).

Best thing to do is take a look at the DNR signing handbook and form your own conclusions - Here is the link : http://michigan.gov/documents/dnr/Motor ... 1136_7.pdf

 

[RSVECTORFREAK]

Dumb plain and simple. People are going to die and get seriously injured as a result and this is not going to slow down the fast packs anyway. I too wasn't happy with MSA's stance on this and will not become a member as a result. I feel sorry for the newbies to an area on the weekends. Might be time to ride in full hockey gear.

 

[ecopter]

Consumers are usually the ones who dictate what happens in the free market by their "consumption." It's too bad the majority of riders can't boycott by NOT buying a permit this year. Maybe it would send a message.

jf