Need help on possable new purchase

[Longtimesledder]

Looking at switching from Skidoo 1200 TNT's (16) to a new 18 RTX sidewinder. Have driven the 137 models and they seem nice but up in the air over the reliability issue. There seems to be a lot of threads on this site with typical Cat type issues, the little things that go wrong that you never even think of with BRP. Would like some input from guys that have them and had a 1200 in the past. Not looking to modify, just have a nice experience without being dealer bound all the time. Any help would be great.

 

[KnappAttack]

My honest opinion for what its worth. Stick with the 1200 for fun, reliability gas and go riding.

Want power, handling, better ergos, better ride and easier steering switch to the Winder, but be warned, it has a few flaws you need to work on. Its made by Cat, the fit, finish and engineering is not as good as Doo and IMO never will be. I have a love hate relationship with the Winder and still trying to perfect it, but that's just me. The 1200 always had me laughing and was such an awesome underdog.

We are all working to find solutions to keep belts on them when ridden hard and tuned up, even guys riding stockers hard are having belt issues. Ride it easy and belts will last. One thing is certain, Doo far and away has a better quality product for the most part, bearings, paint, plastic and all the hard parts with the exception of their drive clutches. You'll think the winder is good until you start having issues and finding the weak points, then you have to fix them all. They should all come with RR suspension parts and don't either. You have to retrofit a bunch of good parts on it to make it last and it gets expensive, something the factory should have addressed and produced but didn't. I have my winder on track to be reliable fun and fast but its cost some big bucks! If I can make the belt stay on for over 1500-2000 miles I'd be happy, and I'm working to surpass that figure running 290HP cause the 300 miles per belt from last season isn't cutting it I can tell you that.

 

[**sj**]

pretty much my sentiments ...however I believe belts and power go hand in hand....back her down some and you can get decent miles on the belt no issue..if i can get 1000 miles a trail belt at reasonable (crazy compared to a N/A sled) power , Im good....but yes ....ski-doo is head and shoulders in the areas mike points out...

 

[fatchance]

Totally depends on the type of rider you are. If you're the casual rider and you're content with stock HP, you'll be fine. This site often has the sky is falling mentality. If you're going to turn up the boost then Knapp is dead on.

 

[Mototown]

Get the clutch aligned properly at stock hp , forth wheel kit , it will be fine . Most of the problems guys have is jacking the hp ,or putting on aftermarket parts that create more problems than it solves.

 

[actionjack]

Hmmm. Well I guess I’m a grandma who doesn’t ride hard enough or enough miles but I have ridden 2 seasons of just gas and go. Including tuned (but not 270hp+). No oil problems no clutch issues, will start season 3 in OEM belt.

I personally wouldn’t switch to 1200 for reliability.

 

[Big_Phil]

Honestly. 4th wheel kit and you’re good to go for 10ooo kms with pretty much zero maintenance.l. For someone to say that skidoo is built better than this sled obviously never owned a skidoo product before.

The sidewinder is the best snowmobile ever made.

 

[JestersYamacat]

I agree with most of the sentiments posted here. Have several 1200 doos in my group. Great sled for sure. If you want fun and pull like no other and do it reliably then the SW is your sled. Even in stock form it is a formidable sled. I ride mine at 260-270 in Power trail with a SQ exhaust and clutching and it has been flawless. Never blown a belt and yes, I ride hard. I change mine at 1000 miles as that to me is more than good enough. In fact I used less belts that the 2 1200s in my group who both blew belts this past winter. There is no doubt that F&F could be better but it definitely passable and nothing to worry about outside of the 4 wheel kit but to be honest a change of bearing to better quality bearings fixes that problem too for less than 40 bucks. One thing to note, I have not been using the fast spool PT program and my power curve is much smoother and less abrupt that the newer fast spool versions. I Happen to think this is playing a role in the belts as it hits much harder off the bottom and middle and pushes more heat into your clutches in just holding the belt. I may be wrong and we will see as I am upgrading shortly to the PT fast spool program along with map sensor and blow off valve. Belts get more wear and blow, I will know why. Cheers

jester

 

[Sevey]

We had a demo Renegade 1200 a few years ago for a weekend and I was really impressed with it. In most categories it outclassed the Nytro. Great clutching, top end was better, suspension was better, handling was way better, engine pulled great. Still don't like the riding/seating position on the doo's though. IMO on trails, you wont be leaving much on the table against a sidewinder. The 1200 is a solid sled. Its a shame the engine is discontinued.

As for the 'cat issues'; Yamaha and cat got their sh_t together for the SW. The Viper was the first brain child and did have some teething with QC and the damn ecu. All those issues went away with the SW. There a few chinks in the armour with the SW but easily fixable. ie trihub.

If the doo has more life left in it - I would run it. But if it's wore out and time for a new sled that's another story.
MS

 

[Boston RX1]

I can't speak for the Doo because I only love the Yamaha, but I can say that I love my winder. I typically put 1,000's of dollars into my past sleds to get them like i want them, this one was just the opposite. It is perfect, no. Could there be improvements, certainly. You can't fault the MFG when you add insane amounts of power to the sled and things fail. The power is just insane in stock form. I am sure i would feel the need if i ever got on a pumped up version of the SW, but i hope i never will. I think this sled has the best of all worlds. My face gets sore from smiling every time i go out. It brought me back into snowmobiling again. Very happy.

 

[Rich Kay]

D

My honest opinion for what its worth. Stick with the 1200 for fun, reliability gas and go riding.

Want power, handling, better ergos, better ride and easier steering switch to the Winder, but be warned, it has a few flaws you need to work on. Its made by Cat, the fit, finish and engineering is not as good as Doo and IMO never will be. I have a love hate relationship with the Winder and still trying to perfect it, but that's just me. The 1200 always had me laughing and was such an awesome underdog.

We are all working to find solutions to keep belts on them when ridden hard and tuned up, even guys riding stockers hard are having belt issues. Ride it easy and belts will last. One thing is certain, Doo far and away has a better quality product for the most part, bearings, paint, plastic and all the hard parts with the exception of their drive clutches. You'll think the winder is good until you start having issues and finding the weak points, then you have to fix them all. They should all come with RR suspension parts and don't either. You have to retrofit a bunch of good parts on it to make it last and it gets expensive, something the factory should have addressed and produced but didn't. I have my winder on track to be reliable fun and fast but its cost some big bucks! If I can make the belt stay on for over 1500-2000 miles I'd be happy, and I'm working to surpass that figure running 290HP cause the 300 miles per belt from last season isn't cutting it I can tell you that.

DONT cut my head off for saying this but keep cranking up the power on theses sleds stock all the way up to your favorite "flash" and continue to scratch your head.... belt tech is been past up with power. Cost to fix and upgrade into being reliable is what has been going on for ever especially for the guys that pound on there sled (not saying you Knapp) and never mention it. Again, not being critical but there are flaws in all of them and the cost is getting WAY out of hand for the sport to continue much longer. It will only be the passionate few that will keep the sport on life support until its just too much to mess with anymore. I agree with the love hate thing with this Yamaha /Cat mix as it has taking it to yet another twist on wondering whos the best choice? We have asked for a lot and they have given us a lot so how much more can we stand to pay for??

 

[SAB1]

Spot on fatchance. Can't say it any better.

 

[stevewithOCD]

First of all, the majority of people posting on this forum are here to get help with issues. And some of us DO have problems STOCK riding NORMAL!
For each guy here, there are 20 with NO PROBLEMS.
Secondly, i've seen as many DOO's with problems as these Yamacats. They just hide it better. I'll go as far to say there are more DOO's broken as all the others combined, but they also dominate the market so it's probably even.

The first question Mr. "meluvyoulongtimesledder" must answer is:

1. Do you want to be the fastest? If yes.......buy Sidewinder. If no then go to question 2
2. Are you a Ski-Doo guy that will bash Yamaha even with no problems? If yes......buy DOO. If no..........buy the DOO.

My $.02 or $2.00 Canadien...

 

[VX1R]

IMHO the SideWinder is all about the motor. I can't really add any significant info regarding your choice between the 1200 vs. the SW that hasn't already been said from the guys who've already posted. That being said.....

 

[yamadoo]

I have the Viper or side winder non turbo prototype.
I have had many prior Yamies and other than an oil tank seep/leak have loved the ride, feel and reliability of it. Is under powered that’s why the winder is the ticket.
I have followed this site for many years and have learned that the “problems” discussed with many me too’s are actually rare but this site is filled with people who love their Yamies and we ( self included) expect the perfection we want to brag about .
The majority of very satisfied winder/Viper owners are not going to flood this site with posts stating “Oh really mine is fine” when we read of very talented Tuners who are frustrated at whatever limit the are running into. Often they have great insight into what may be the weak link or opportunity to improve. But like I started my Viper Has served me very well but only 4K miles compared to 40+k on different older and newer Yamahas.