AKrider
TY 4 Stroke God
Undecided is right mentioning the too soft front end. The stock springs are very soft and have a ton of sag, even when maxed out on preload. I first tried some stiffer straight rate springs off an older Polaris and immediately noticed a difference not only with the front end being off the ground, but it tightened up the handling as well. My new GYT-R front shocks are stiffer all around and make a dramatic difference.
It is a good handling chassis, it just takes some work dialing it in for what YOU want.
It is a good handling chassis, it just takes some work dialing it in for what YOU want.
Groomerdriver
TY 4 Stroke Master
rockrider said:
rockrider - do you have the Polaris p/n for these springs? or which model and year did they come from? did you have to make any mods to make them fit?
thanks!
AKrider
TY 4 Stroke God
I'm not exactly certain of what year Polaris they came off of as my dealer supplied me with them for a race. I know they were off an older Polaris 440 and were the awful purple color Poo was so proud of in the 90's. My guess is a '98 XCR 440 as I seem to remember it using purple springs. My dealer orginally used the springs on an SRX.
number1kyster
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OK guys my first ride of the season is coming up and i have made the following changes.
Tighten the springs all the way on my front shocks
Found that my transfer rods were set to almos tmaximum transfer from the factory. I took out some of the transfer.
My blocks were set on the hardest setting..... Where should they be set at?
Did i do anything wrong here?
Tighten the springs all the way on my front shocks
Found that my transfer rods were set to almos tmaximum transfer from the factory. I took out some of the transfer.
My blocks were set on the hardest setting..... Where should they be set at?
Did i do anything wrong here?
Groomerdriver
TY 4 Stroke Master
number1kyster said:
What did you want to accomplish again? It's been a while.
number1kyster
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I didnt want it to be as tippy.
Groomerdriver
TY 4 Stroke Master
number1kyster said:
limiter strap in stock position?
rear torsion blocks at max?
how much threads showing in front track shock spring?
number1kyster
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Limiter strap is in 1st hole. Rear blocks are on medium and i think the front spring is fairly tight.
Groomerdriver
TY 4 Stroke Master
number1kyster said:
Put your limiter back to stock )not sure which hole that is)
Put rear blocks on full hard
Reduce front track shock pressure to <1/2" showing (going on memory on this one)...very loose.
More front track spring pressure is working angainst your tight limiter straps, and vice versa.
You can dial OUT more transfer, but then your ride quality is going to suffer.
THis is where I'd start.
ReX
TY 4 Stroke God
undecided, there are many ways to set up a sled. Many of us would not fully agree with your setup being the best...
If you run a loose limiter strap the front of the track can droop down and effectively help to push the inner ski off the ground when cornering. Backing off on the front skid spring puts more weight back on the skis, but it puts more weight on the skis all the time - even when cruising, braking, as well as cornering. You'll end up with heavier steering.
By using the limiter and keeping reasonable preload on the front skid spring you can keep a reasonable amount of ski pressure for cruising and braking (less steering effort), help keep the skis on the ground when accelerating moderately, and at the same time get a significant improvement to inside ski lift. Especially for these taller sleds (more suspension travel), using the limiter (tightening it) does have its advantages compared to backing off on the front track spring.
Basically working the limiter against the front track spring gives you more consistent ski pressure compared to running a loose limiter and loosening the front track spring. Keep in mind that the limiter is only tight when accelerating and when an inside ski starts to lift. If you sit on the sled on the flat and look at the limiter, it will still be loose - even if you've tightened it up a couple of positions from stock.
Another thing you'll find is if you reduce the weight transfer setting to keep the skis on the ground, the ride quality will suffer. This is because the rear of the skid can't compress without the front spring being compressed as well. If you use the limiter instead, the ski pressure is increased while accelerating and cornering (fighting inside ski lift), but the rear suspension is still able to work independently (front/rear) so you end up with a more compliant ride.
Most of us will agree that if you want more control of inside ski lift, one of the best tools (as part of the whole set of adjustments) to accomplish this is to tighten the limiter a hole or two. Backing off on the front track spring will also work, but will give you heavy steering.
The ideal setup for your riding style is a balance of all of the adjustments. You'll probably find slightly shortening the limiter strap combined with reducing the weight transfer setting, and possibly reducing the front track spring preload will get you closer to what you want. If you're not bottoming out, lowering the sled will help a lot too (reducing the front track spring preload is a big part of this). If the sled is lowered at all, you need to tighten the limiter a little to keep maintain its function on how it tightens when an inside ski lifts.
If you run a loose limiter strap the front of the track can droop down and effectively help to push the inner ski off the ground when cornering. Backing off on the front skid spring puts more weight back on the skis, but it puts more weight on the skis all the time - even when cruising, braking, as well as cornering. You'll end up with heavier steering.
By using the limiter and keeping reasonable preload on the front skid spring you can keep a reasonable amount of ski pressure for cruising and braking (less steering effort), help keep the skis on the ground when accelerating moderately, and at the same time get a significant improvement to inside ski lift. Especially for these taller sleds (more suspension travel), using the limiter (tightening it) does have its advantages compared to backing off on the front track spring.
Basically working the limiter against the front track spring gives you more consistent ski pressure compared to running a loose limiter and loosening the front track spring. Keep in mind that the limiter is only tight when accelerating and when an inside ski starts to lift. If you sit on the sled on the flat and look at the limiter, it will still be loose - even if you've tightened it up a couple of positions from stock.
Another thing you'll find is if you reduce the weight transfer setting to keep the skis on the ground, the ride quality will suffer. This is because the rear of the skid can't compress without the front spring being compressed as well. If you use the limiter instead, the ski pressure is increased while accelerating and cornering (fighting inside ski lift), but the rear suspension is still able to work independently (front/rear) so you end up with a more compliant ride.
Most of us will agree that if you want more control of inside ski lift, one of the best tools (as part of the whole set of adjustments) to accomplish this is to tighten the limiter a hole or two. Backing off on the front track spring will also work, but will give you heavy steering.
The ideal setup for your riding style is a balance of all of the adjustments. You'll probably find slightly shortening the limiter strap combined with reducing the weight transfer setting, and possibly reducing the front track spring preload will get you closer to what you want. If you're not bottoming out, lowering the sled will help a lot too (reducing the front track spring preload is a big part of this). If the sled is lowered at all, you need to tighten the limiter a little to keep maintain its function on how it tightens when an inside ski lifts.
Groomerdriver
TY 4 Stroke Master
ReX said:
1st, where did I say it was the best? I never said that and are just trying to help the guy? Why weren't you posting to help?
ReX
TY 4 Stroke God
undecided said:ReX said:
1st, where did I say it was the best? I never said that and are just trying to help the guy? Why weren't you posting to help?
Sorry, I didn't mean to offend you.
I used to run your setup for many years and it worked well with all of my sleds prior to about 1997 (BTW, I too ran Polaris sleds for many years until 2005 when I bought my first Yamaha). Back then I personally considered it to be the best setup and I've used "the best" to describe it in the past.
When I started to run sleds with longer travel suspensions I discovered that the limiter strap could be used to help inside ski lift without sacrificing the suspension travel too much and there were compromises that allowed for lighter steering loads. It took me a while, but eventually I figured out that finding the best balance wasn't so simple.
Anyway, my intention was to help out a fellow TY'er with his suspension setup and share what I've learnt over the years, not to say your setup wouldn't work or your advice was wrong. Your suggestions would work and would help number1kyster improve his handling.
number1kyster
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I have no idea what my track spring is at but im pretty sure it is tight. This weekend i tightened my front shcok springs all the way and noticed a huge increase in steering effort. I also tighten up my transfer rods. I think im gonna loosen them back up though. I ride hard and i dont want to loose any travel. My limiter straps are as loose as they can be. Im going ot loosen my rods and maybe loosen my front shock springs a little bit as well. Im going ot try bringing up my limiter strap 2 holes. Thanks for all of your help guys.
number1kyster
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Will this work ok? ^^^^^^^^^^^
ReX
TY 4 Stroke God
Give it a try and see.
It sounds to me like you've made some pretty significant adjustments. If you find your still not happy, I'd recommend making smaller changes - starting not too far from a more stock setup. You'll probably find a good compromise not all that far from the stock settings.
Keep in mind everyone is different and considers a different setup ideal for them. Riding style, especially throttle modulation, speed carried into a corner and leaning through corners has a huge effect on what's stable and easily controlled for you.
In general, my personal preference is: starting from stock, I like to tighten the limiter one hole, reduce the weight transfer a little, move my handlebars forward a little (you might have to remove a rivet), and then fine tune from there. Unless I feel there is lots of unused travel or not enough bottoming out control I don't change the ski spring preload. BTW, moving the handlebars forward puts more weight on the skis when cornering/leaning hard and it can make a surprisingly big difference.
My goal is to get my sled so the skis stay on the ground almost all the time, including exiting a high speed corner at close to wide open throttle - but still have the ability to get the skis just off the ground if I sit back on the sled while accelerating hard from a stop (with very good traction conditions).
To improve handling further, last season I installed a 13mm sway bar and this season decided to install C&A Outlaw skis (more flotation and deeper keel for more grip in deeper snow).
Try making small changes at a time on the same day and same conditions. I also like to re-ride the same trail sections with different settings. I usually go out on my own bringing all the tools I need and spend up to an entire day tweaking and tuning - stopping every 1/2 to 1 hour to make some changes. Usually I will make a few more changes on a few additional shorter tuning sessions before I'm fully satisfied.
It sounds to me like you've made some pretty significant adjustments. If you find your still not happy, I'd recommend making smaller changes - starting not too far from a more stock setup. You'll probably find a good compromise not all that far from the stock settings.
Keep in mind everyone is different and considers a different setup ideal for them. Riding style, especially throttle modulation, speed carried into a corner and leaning through corners has a huge effect on what's stable and easily controlled for you.
In general, my personal preference is: starting from stock, I like to tighten the limiter one hole, reduce the weight transfer a little, move my handlebars forward a little (you might have to remove a rivet), and then fine tune from there. Unless I feel there is lots of unused travel or not enough bottoming out control I don't change the ski spring preload. BTW, moving the handlebars forward puts more weight on the skis when cornering/leaning hard and it can make a surprisingly big difference.
My goal is to get my sled so the skis stay on the ground almost all the time, including exiting a high speed corner at close to wide open throttle - but still have the ability to get the skis just off the ground if I sit back on the sled while accelerating hard from a stop (with very good traction conditions).
To improve handling further, last season I installed a 13mm sway bar and this season decided to install C&A Outlaw skis (more flotation and deeper keel for more grip in deeper snow).
Try making small changes at a time on the same day and same conditions. I also like to re-ride the same trail sections with different settings. I usually go out on my own bringing all the tools I need and spend up to an entire day tweaking and tuning - stopping every 1/2 to 1 hour to make some changes. Usually I will make a few more changes on a few additional shorter tuning sessions before I'm fully satisfied.
