New sled!

[KnappAttack]

Ok I gotcha....I know the secondary cat setup needs the cat Jshaft too, so you are gonna run just cat TEAM primary and our stock winder secondary correct?

So what belt will work with that then you think?

This will be a nice test, back to back....I have priced out a full swap and its not cheap going to full cat setup, but if the primary alone helps, that is not nearly as bad. If we can run the 112 cat belt, that would be the ticket but will that fit?

Keep me posted Mike.

Dan

Team primary and Yamaha secondary should be just fine with the Cat belt Dan. I've yet to install that combo, but the Cat belt is wider and longer, should be a wash, wouldn't need to shim the secondary at all and full floating capable. Also allows for more start to finish ratio, (wider spread in ratio).

I tried the XS 805 belt for the Apex and the driven needs to be machined to go narrower as that belt has a bit too much deflection using the stock Winder clutch setup. If the XS 805 Apex belt was wider, it would be a non issue in the driven for deflection.

 

[ROCKERDAN]

Team primary and Yamaha secondary should be just fine with the Cat belt Dan. I've yet to install that combo, but the Cat belt is wider and longer, should be a wash, wouldn't need to shim the secondary at all and full floating capable. Also allows for more start to finish ratio, (wider spread in ratio).

I tried the XS 805 belt for the Apex and the driven needs to be machined to go narrower as that belt has a bit too much deflection using the stock Winder clutch setup. If the XS 805 Apex belt was wider, it would be a non issue in the driven for deflection.

Mike keep me posted on this.....Im assuming you had a line on the TEAM primary, as they are not really cheap when you get done adding everything. But if we can help belt life, Im all ears!

It could be a very interesting combo when you think about it....most the perf cat guys seem to be going to a torsional secondary mod to cool their cat system down, and liking it....so it could be a killer combo with TEAM primary and our Winder secondary. Cat also has the other belt which is harder then the latest 112 belt, I think its higher priced but would give you the option of two hi end cat belts, one softer and one harder. It does seem like those guys favor the 112 belt more.

I was looking at a new cat, and found the auto adjust to have that belt singin tight for deflection, I mean tight! Will be interesting to see this and glad its you that is gonna test it. Top speed will be interesting to see too. certainly keep us all posted with a separate thread once you start the install/testing....

Dan

 

[SumpBuster]

I hear you, and I never would’ve noticed the difference. I’m used to 800 triples in CK3 chassis, using throttle and speed to handle the moguls, and man handling the thing through the turns. Lower back be damned lol! Any of these new Winders would be unimaginable luxury and I wouldn’t know the difference between the base shocks and QS3r’s. In the end it came down to the Cat was thousands cheaper, not a 9 hour trailer ride to pick up, and many say the team clutches don’t rattle and blow belts... I badly wanted the blue and the name but the Cat RR model really grew on me and it is essentially the same sled as the LE.

I know that feeling!! Try to keep up with cockroach Yammys in the late 80''s with my formula plus, only led to excessive sweating, busted prs parts, and a sore week ahead. Had many ski doos, the first with some mogul promise was the 93 mxz. But then I got sidetracked by the triples, then 98 ck3 mach z, and had a few after that, the last ski doo was zx chassis mxz. Then I went 4 stroke. Never a Rev fan though. My 06 apex was and is a great sled, especially after hygear rear shock work, and a wrp seat...but I will say the sidewinder, as it is set up now, is really, really nice. Goes like hell too!

 

[cannondale27]

Mike keep me posted on this.....Im assuming you had a line on the TEAM primary, as they are not really cheap when you get done adding everything. But if we can help belt life, Im all ears!

It could be a very interesting combo when you think about it....most the perf cat guys seem to be going to a torsional secondary mod to cool their cat system down, and liking it....so it could be a killer combo with TEAM primary and our Winder secondary. Cat also has the other belt which is harder then the latest 112 belt, I think its higher priced but would give you the option of two hi end cat belts, one softer and one harder. It does seem like those guys favor the 112 belt more.

I was looking at a new cat, and found the auto adjust to have that belt singin tight for deflection, I mean tight! Will be interesting to see this and glad its you that is gonna test it. Top speed will be interesting to see too. certainly keep us all posted with a separate thread once you start the install/testing....

Dan

This may be a dumb question but Cat has the auto adjusting deflection setup. Now is that like the Cat and Yamaha ATV/UTV's where the belt is always spinning even when stopped? If so that is the reason Cat is having less belt issues and the secondary is where that is accomplished.

 

[ROCKERDAN]

No, Belt is not spinning at idle that I know of. But grab a belt on a cat in showroom, its singin tight with basically zero deflection. I thought the base(hub) down in bottom of primary spun if I recall...but not sure too be honest.

Dan

 

[cannondale27]

No, Belt is not spinning at idle that I know of. But grab a belt on a cat in showroom, its singin tight with basically zero deflection. I thought the base(hub) down in bottom of primary spun if I recall...but not sure too be honest.

Dan

Yes been curious of that myself. In ATV/UTV world the CVT systems that belt is always engaged and tight are by far the best and longest lasting. A long pull is obviously hard on belt but so is a hard engagement. The engagement must do some probably microscopic damage to the belt and the long hard pull finishes it off because of damage. Eliminates belt whip also I would imagine.

 

[cannondale27]

I guess it not spinning at idle but is always tight.

 

[ROCKERDAN]

I guess it not spinning at idle but is always tight.

Yeah its definitely not like that system in video....

 

[KnappAttack]

No, Belt is not spinning at idle that I know of. But grab a belt on a cat in showroom, its singin tight with basically zero deflection. I thought the base(hub) down in bottom of primary spun if I recall...but not sure too be honest.

Dan

Team Primary for 998 has a bearing on the shaft like the clutches of old. Not a big dia. bearing, but small one on the shaft. About the same post size as the Yamaha clutch, maybe a bit bigger. So belt is tight at idle and not wearing in the shaft and belt. Driven has tension on it all the time so no deflection adjustment screws or shims anywhere as not needed. Belt is always tight, but drive clutch not wearing or squealing on the belt, even though belt is tight.

 

[cannondale27]

Team Primary for 998 has a bearing on the shaft like the clutches of old. Not a big dia. bearing, but small one on the shaft. About the same post size as the Yamaha clutch, maybe a bit bigger. So belt is tight at idle and not wearing in the shaft and belt. Driven has tension on it all the time so no deflection adjustment screws or shims anywhere as not needed. Belt is always tight, but drive clutch not wearing or squealing on the belt, even though belt is tight.

So shaft is taken care of as far as belt rubbing on it but what about the sheaves? Unless there is a sprag clutch or something like in the video I posted above there has to be a gap between belt and sheaves or it would move right? As belt wears or different widths that gap changes. Same reason for 911 cover on Yamaha. Are they running that gap tighter also on the new Cats? Interesting. Just looking for reason the Cats supposedly arent blowing as many belts.

 

[cannondale27]

Maybe the solution to High HP is a system like the ATV where primary and secondary sheaves are always engaged..

 

[swampcat]

Or where the clutches are LOCKED in place better in the chassis. As in no frame flex.

 

[KnappAttack]

So shaft is taken care of as far as belt rubbing on it but what about the sheaves? Unless there is a sprag clutch or something like in the video I posted above there has to be a gap between belt and sheaves or it would move right? As belt wears or different widths that gap changes. Same reason for 911 cover on Yamaha. Are they running that gap tighter also on the new Cats? Interesting. Just looking for reason the Cats supposedly arent blowing as many belts.

Belt clearance work the same as any other clutch.

Cats are geared lower, have different clutches and different belt. Slipping less and maybe better alignment, who knows until you try all the combos, which takes a bunch of testing, time and parts. Just need money for parts and time to figure it all out. Cat has many years in the game with turbo power to figure it out and its taken every one of those years!