LazyBastard
TY 4 Stroke God
Jeff is his name... that was his signature, lol.
Jeff: I agree with Turk, more inner weight. You're probably slipping the belt a lot on takeoff. Might also want to tighten up the secondary a bit.
What I would suggest when you start doing more testing is that you make a few runs and check the clutch temperatures, then change it to the HH's the way you had it before, make a few runs, and check the temperatures again. You'll probably find that the HH's are making your clutches hotter than stock, which means that the belt is slipping. If that is the case, move some weight from the tip to the middle, try a longer bolt in the heel, and tighten up the secondary. Note that best results may require a different helix. Do one thing at a time and see how it reacts.
Jeff: I agree with Turk, more inner weight. You're probably slipping the belt a lot on takeoff. Might also want to tighten up the secondary a bit.
What I would suggest when you start doing more testing is that you make a few runs and check the clutch temperatures, then change it to the HH's the way you had it before, make a few runs, and check the temperatures again. You'll probably find that the HH's are making your clutches hotter than stock, which means that the belt is slipping. If that is the case, move some weight from the tip to the middle, try a longer bolt in the heel, and tighten up the secondary. Note that best results may require a different helix. Do one thing at a time and see how it reacts.
jeff reid
Veteran
This is what was recommended for the initial set-up--hole #1-- 1/4" allen screw
-hole#2-- 3/8" sleel fastener
-hole#3--7/16 steel fastener + 1 thin washer.
To be honest my riding season was really short last year and not alot of time for testing.Thanks for your info and as soon as the snow hits,I will be back on the same field testing.Thanks again
-hole#2-- 3/8" sleel fastener
-hole#3--7/16 steel fastener + 1 thin washer.
To be honest my riding season was really short last year and not alot of time for testing.Thanks for your info and as soon as the snow hits,I will be back on the same field testing.Thanks again
Try this
3/4 allen in heel
keep hole #2 the same
your gona need to take 3 grams out of the tip & lost my specs on the bolts & washers.
3/4 allen in heel
keep hole #2 the same
your gona need to take 3 grams out of the tip & lost my specs on the bolts & washers.
jeff reid
Veteran
Thanks ,I will let you know how this works out-but it may not be for 3-4 weeks.
I'm new to this clutching stuff, but how will tightening the secondary help the belt slipping, if it didn't slip with the stock weights?
LazyBastard
TY 4 Stroke God
The stock weights are quite heavy and typically result in overshifting. At the same amount of power, if you back off the primary by using weights that are causing LESS SHIFT, then the secondary will also back off, which means that it will exert less squeeze on the belt, and less squeeze = more slip. To bring the squeeze back, you tighten up the secondary. Of course, this has a secondary effect of pulling up the engine speed, a secondary that squeezes harder resists shifting, which means that the primary needs to try harder in order to shift -- add some weight to the primary. Of course don't go too far otherwise the belt will tend to stick into the clutches and this will rob power as well.
Clutching is a crazy balancing act with a lot of variables. At any particular level of speed and power, each of the clutches need to be squeezing the belt the right amount to maximize the amount of power transferred, but there are, of course, infinite variations of speed/power. If there was only one level, you would just tighten or loosen your secondary and add or remove weight to the primary until you maximize efficiency. Not that easy though.
Clutching is a crazy balancing act with a lot of variables. At any particular level of speed and power, each of the clutches need to be squeezing the belt the right amount to maximize the amount of power transferred, but there are, of course, infinite variations of speed/power. If there was only one level, you would just tighten or loosen your secondary and add or remove weight to the primary until you maximize efficiency. Not that easy though.
The easiest way to balance em is check clutch heat after a couple of wide open runs. Heat = slippage or in the case of the secondary could be too much grip or nut enuff. Change settings up or down until clutches run cool.
jeff reid
Veteran
When you the clutches should be cool,do you mean you should be able to lay your hand on them?Also with the primary clutch,will you get some heat transfer from the engine?
thanks
thanks
LazyBastard
TY 4 Stroke God
They won't be *cold* if thats what you're asking. Remember that just the belt bending will generate some heat, AND the fact that the air under the hood will get warm due to proximity with the engine. And yes, some heat may transfer through the PTO shaft. Compared to the heat dissipation to the air though, heat transferred through the PTO shaft will be low.
What you are looking for is the ability to put your hand on the clutches and find it a *comfortable* temperature where you wouldn't be at all inclined to remove your hand to avoid the heat.
What you are looking for is the ability to put your hand on the clutches and find it a *comfortable* temperature where you wouldn't be at all inclined to remove your hand to avoid the heat.
jeff reid
Veteran
Should they both be around the same temp?
LazyBastard
TY 4 Stroke God
Good question. Shouldn't be too much different. That being said, the primary has less cooling surface, receives a little bit of heat (though not much) through the PTO shaft, AND, the engagement friction is dissipated into the primary as heat, so the primary could be a touch warmer. Still under the same general guidelines though.
So if the primary is over shifting then why wouldn't you just take some weight off them, then as was said then the secondary would shift properly and everything should be fine? The rest you lost me, way beyond my clutching ability.
LazyBastard
TY 4 Stroke God
Its a start, but there is more to gain. And remember what I said about it being a balancing act... if you take weight off the primary, the secondary will naturally shift less (because the primary isn't forcing it as far), which means compress and twist the spring less, which means less force, which *may* mean some slipping.
If you make one change, it can make things better, or it can make things worse. Sometimes, when you make two changes that individually make things a lot worse, together they make things a lot better, like a particular helix and weight combination. You may try a helix by itself and find that something weird happens, like overrevving and slipping out of the hole followed by good engine speed in the middle, followed by bogging at the top. That same helix that works badly by itself in conjunction with a weight that shifts more at the start and less at the end (which by itself could cause bogging at the start and gradually pulling up to overrevving and belt slipping at the top) could give you a BIG improvement.
The key to clutching is understanding exactly how and why everything works. If you don't have that, then hopefully you can have some degree of plain old luck. Of course if you don't know what you're doing but are handy with a wrench, there is no reason not to play with it. Keep track of how it was when you started, that way the worst that can possibly happen is that you blow a belt and have to put it back to stock. If you keep track of the clutch temperature, then there is no reason you should blow belts.
If you make one change, it can make things better, or it can make things worse. Sometimes, when you make two changes that individually make things a lot worse, together they make things a lot better, like a particular helix and weight combination. You may try a helix by itself and find that something weird happens, like overrevving and slipping out of the hole followed by good engine speed in the middle, followed by bogging at the top. That same helix that works badly by itself in conjunction with a weight that shifts more at the start and less at the end (which by itself could cause bogging at the start and gradually pulling up to overrevving and belt slipping at the top) could give you a BIG improvement.
The key to clutching is understanding exactly how and why everything works. If you don't have that, then hopefully you can have some degree of plain old luck. Of course if you don't know what you're doing but are handy with a wrench, there is no reason not to play with it. Keep track of how it was when you started, that way the worst that can possibly happen is that you blow a belt and have to put it back to stock. If you keep track of the clutch temperature, then there is no reason you should blow belts.
Still trying to figure this out, if the primary is over shifting and the secondary is doing its job, then if you lighten the primary weights so they don't shift as hard, then the secondary should still have the same amount of tension ie. grip, then the sled should rev more and the belt isn't being pulled as hard from the primary.
Wouldn't the secondary pressure stay the same no matter what?
Wouldn't the secondary pressure stay the same no matter what?
LazyBastard
TY 4 Stroke God
No. If the primary doesn't shift as far, then the secondary will have LESS tension because IT ALSO hasn't shifted as far.
