OEM Agreement Between Yamaha & Textron

[nbsledder]

Seems odd to me that Yamaha would invest all that money,r+d into this new engine just to use it a couple of years.......

 

[Mills]

I got to know the Yamaha snowmobile test engineering staff and found out that from the time they receive a prototype to start ride testing, it takes 5 years to release it to production. Seems curious that the Cat deal was for five years. Sort of left the Yamaha enigineering staff free to develop one or two sleds extensively over that time period rather than model year/chassis after model year/chassis.

 

[Sasquatch]

A couple of my thoughts. Yamaha obviously had a plan for future sled building before the Cat deal came along because the Sidewinder motor and i'am pretty sure a new chasis was in development before the Cat deal came about. I was told Yamaha places there order for sleds with Cat then when the order is delivered in the fall Yamaha rights a check, no leftovers, no money tied up for Cat! I would think with the prophet ability of the snowmobile industry this will look pretty inviting to Textron! I also know that the Textron deal does not have Yamaha concerned for some reason. I'am quite confident that if Yamaha don't have a deal with Textron to build sleds they will have a Yamaha built sled ready to go. A quote I herd was, Yamaha is not getting out of the snowmobile business!

I'm still waiting for the new Apex but without the four hole it will never come! When the lineup of one company is mirrored in the other there is no brand identity to follow. Cat has Yamaha's thunder and they sold it to Textron! What Yamaha needs to do is take back their thunder not just the sticker!

 

[kviper]

It's going to be interesting how this all plays out! Pretty sure there will be snowmobiles that have Yamaha on the side of them well in to the future and I think Yamaha will go where the money leads them but will build there own if and when they need to. As far as the four holer, unfortunately i'am thinking once it's gone, it's gone!

 

[TrueBlue]

I've only seen posts here on TY that the Apex is done, I have seen nothing on the Yamaha site! I'd love to see a link! The Vector hanging around would surprise me if the Apex is done. Apex, Vector same sled same chassis get rid of the Apex and try to force the holdouts over to the Sidewinder. Get rid of the Vector and force them to the Viper. But Yamaha does seem to be holding on to three Touring sleds with tripple power. The Cat version moving into the sidewinder price range and 2 grand more then the Venture TF with the same engine. Makes the Venture TF the best choice in a touring sled by far!

When I look at the lineup what I see is a huge push to the Sidewinder with 18 models available. 5 Viper models 6 if you include the Venture DX 7 all Yamaha models with 2 to 4 on thier way out. 2 work sleds left. I also see dealers all over with Sidewinders and a few older Vipers for sale left in inventory. I can see dumping the Apex and the Vector because of competition on the Cat models. I can see the Phazer staying. Why they have so many touring models maybe just cause they are clearing inventory.

Yamaha at this point is as close to dead as they can get. Long Live Yamaha!

I made a mistake. I saw this information on Snowmobile.com, not Yamaha website.

 

[2lapsdown]

It is a multi use mill

Seems odd to me that Yamaha would invest all that money,r+d into this new engine just to use it a couple of years.......

It is a multi use mill...

 

[biffdotorg]

Well as of this morning, Textron had their dealer show to introduce all the AC dealers to the Textron family.

The big announcements that may shape your yamaha/AC agreement are as follows. Arctic Cat will be branding their sleds still as Arctic Cat, but the dirt products will now be Textron Off Road, but keep the sub brand of Alterra, Prowler and Wildcat. They also announced that the new Yamaha powered Wildcat XX will not be available till next January. They also said it will be with the 998 Triple as planned. So they want to keep using that engine. Unless there is time for them to work in one of their Weber mills before the release.

The fact they kept the AC moniker on the sleds, and not on the ROV division is due to how the customer is brand loyal in sleds, but sub brand loyal in ROV products. Ask a sled guy what he rides and he will say Arctic Cat, Polaris or Yamaha. But ask a SXS guy what he rides, it is usually RZR, Wildcat or YXZ. If you read into it a bit more, it could mean that the sled division could be spun off. Who knows, it's not their bag, but for now, they presented it as an expansion to all their dealers.

They went out of their way this morning to encourage all dealers to explore the option of selling EZ-Go and Textron Off road if they are an AC dealer, and to explore the AC products and Textron Off Road if they are an EZ-Go dealer. Sleds are obviously a northern climate product only.

It will be an interesting 12-18 months for sure.

 

[Farmer 73]

Well as of this morning, Textron had their dealer show to introduce all the AC dealers to the Textron family.

The big announcements that may shape your yamaha/AC agreement are as follows. Arctic Cat will be branding their sleds still as Arctic Cat, but the dirt products will now be Textron Off Road, but keep the sub brand of Alterra, Prowler and Wildcat. They also announced that the new Yamaha powered Wildcat XX will not be available till next January. They also said it will be with the 998 Triple as planned. So they want to keep using that engine. Unless there is time for them to work in one of their Weber mills before the release.

The fact they kept the AC moniker on the sleds, and not on the ROV division is due to how the customer is brand loyal in sleds, but sub brand loyal in ROV products. Ask a sled guy what he rides and he will say Arctic Cat, Polaris or Yamaha. But ask a SXS guy what he rides, it is usually RZR, Wildcat or YXZ. If you read into it a bit more, it could mean that the sled division could be spun off. Who knows, it's not their bag, but for now, they presented it as an expansion to all their dealers.

They went out of their way this morning to encourage all dealers to explore the option of selling EZ-Go and Textron Off road if they are an AC dealer, and to explore the AC products and Textron Off Road if they are an EZ-Go dealer. Sleds are obviously a northern climate product only.

It will be an interesting 12-18 months for sure.

This thought and statement by Textron tells me that my hunch of them looking at what Cat brings to them is true. They are all in with Cats ROV division, that parts here to stay. The sled division has to make money to stay around. If it don't they will sell it off or dissolve it. If they do sell it off who would be the buyer? Well all the cards point to Yamaha. If Yamaha don't want it then what? My opinion is that if Yamaha don't want it, then they are out of the sled business. I just can't see them building an all new Yamaha chassie. I hope I am wrong. I just can't see myself on a Polaris or Skidoo. I am to old to be walking out of the woods or being on a tow rope!

 

[whitedust1]

Good to hear Textron is pulling their markets together which helps defines near future direction for AC. The basic question still is does Textron want to build sleds for Yamaha in their plant? I'm sure the the AC people are split on the matter and some want their own ID and push Yamaha out for good. Others prolly see it as job security to continue building sleds for Yamaha. It will come down to how Textron wants their resources used and if the OEM agreement is worth the ROI plus the pain involved to please Yamaha? I think Textron just is NOT ready to comitt to Yamaha at this time and Yamaha knows it....so they are waiting and are discussing their alternatives internally. If we can consider the problems with the future OEM relationship you can bet Textron and Yamaha are keenly aware.

 

[nydiver]

Good to hear Textron is pulling their markets together which helps defines near future direction for AC. The basic question still is does Textron want to build sleds for Yamaha in their plant? I'm sure the the AC people are split on the matter and some want their own ID and push Yamaha out for good. Others prolly see it as job security to continue building sleds for Yamaha. It will come down to how Textron wants their resources used and if the OEM agreement is worth the ROI plus the pain involved to please Yamaha? I think Textron just is NOT ready to comitt to Yamaha at this time and Yamaha knows it....so they are waiting and are discussing their alternatives internally. If we can consider the problems with the future OEM relationship you can bet Textron and Yamaha are keenly aware.

There is no roi to continue sled operations, there is a operational cost that they will need to consider. Does making the distant 3rd and 4th snowmobiles make sense or do you take closing the operation as a corporate loss against revenues? If textron sees the tax incentive to be too rich then they'll flush and walk. Yamaha was begged to buy ac and they rebuffed, sleds are such a small market for them it just seems improbable for them to continue with the new developments. Dealers are back stock heavy and that ties up internal monies


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[whitedust1]

There is no roi to continue sled operations, there is a operational cost that they will need to consider. Does making the distant 3rd and 4th snowmobiles make sense or do you take closing the operation as a corporate loss against revenues? If textron sees the tax incentive to be too rich then they'll flush and walk. Yamaha was begged to buy ac and they rebuffed, sleds are such a small market for them it just seems improbable for them to continue with the new developments. Dealers are back stock heavy and that ties up internal monies


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Don't know how the numbers look to Textron to build Yamaha sleds for them....might be good? If not good margins very easy to discontinue the OEM Agreement to build sleds and just buy engines from Yamaha. Yamaha was supposed to recover from the earthquake then go it alone after 5 years. Then winter went away for the last 2 years and all OEMS sitting on retail stock of built sleds. If not for the UP LES there would have been very little riding in the Midwest so little wear and tear on anybodies sleds....I know mine only had 1500 miles far from my expected 3500. I'm good and would not think of replacing my Apex XTX until winter returns for a couple years. If others feel the same way sleds won't boom for another 2 0r 3 years before OEMs see some pent up demand for new product. Looking for the glass half full but getting harder to find with a saturated market and last year of the Apex.

 

[thor452]

Anybody think this has been part of the plan for some time now maybe even from the start? 5 years is 14 15 16 17 18 and Textron buys AC right at the end of the agreement? If Yamaha had a 5 year plan then this seems to fit into it just fine. I suspect they either will still have the sidewinder made by Textron or maybe be able to build them for themselves. I think they have spent the down time building a new chassis of their own 5 years seems perfect for that and there is a good chance MY 2019 will have something exciting. If not I am okay with my apex for awhile still and will maybe consider a sidewinder down the road. I only put 10000 miles on my 2012 so I have at least 5 more years to ride this sled and then I need to do a valve adjustment.... okay.

 

[whitedust1]

Anybody think this has been part of the plan for some time now maybe even from the start? 5 years is 14 15 16 17 18 and Textron buys AC right at the end of the agreement? If Yamaha had a 5 year plan then this seems to fit into it just fine. I suspect they either will still have the sidewinder made by Textron or maybe be able to build them for themselves. I think they have spent the down time building a new chassis of their own 5 years seems perfect for that and there is a good chance MY 2019 will have something exciting. If not I am okay with my apex for awhile still and will maybe consider a sidewinder down the road. I only put 10000 miles on my 2012 so I have at least 5 more years to ride this sled and then I need to do a valve adjustment.... okay.

As time passes and Textron broadens their ATV /Golf Cart distribution thru the AC Dealer network it seems that is the value Textron wanted on the sales and marketing side of their biz. It seems logical that the Textron AC sled division will be offered to Yamaha to purchase behind closed dooors. If Yamaha wants TRF Cat sled tech and mfg they can prolly buy it from Textron for the right price. This seems the most logical progression for all involved just up to Yamaha to step up and do it. If Yamaha sits on their hands again Yamaha sleds are over and just an engine company for OEM snowmobiles. The more I think about Textron building sleds for Yamaha the less I think it will happen just not what Textron does or needs to do. The only other avenue I can think for Yamaha sleds is a limited build of pure Yamaha sleds from Japan that would be aok but very expensive products.

 

[Sasquatch]

Yamaha sleds became more expensive when they became Cats, I think something is in the works or they got caught with their pants down. Moving here to be an engine builder seems like a waste, but to be a sled manufacture seems more logical. If all they where to do is build sleds stay in Japan. Their patents are interesting and if the Apex is gone 19 would fit for a replacement. My self I would like to see Yamaha buy out the Cats sled division make Cat all two strokes and Yamaha all four strokes. Makes for separation of the brands and the ability for brand loyalty. Otherwise what is the point? One competing against the other with the same sled makes it hard for the dealers, or the dealers all have to sell both Cat and Yamaha. Then when they sit on the floor the only difference becomes the color. Auto industry has pared down their lines and limited or eliminated the Chrysler, Dodge, Plymouth Chevy, Pontiac, Buick identical vehicles. Yamaha and Cat lines need to do the same or one break away from the other!

 

[2lapsdown]

Why

As time passes and Textron broadens their ATV /Golf Cart distribution thru the AC Dealer network it seems that is the value Textron wanted on the sales and marketing side of their biz. It seems logical that the Textron AC sled division will be offered to Yamaha to purchase behind closed dooors. If Yamaha wants TRF Cat sled tech and mfg they can prolly buy it from Textron for the right price. This seems the most logical progression for all involved just up to Yamaha to step up and do it. If Yamaha sits on their hands again Yamaha sleds are over and just an engine company for OEM snowmobiles. The more I think about Textron building sleds for Yamaha the less I think it will happen just not what Textron does or needs to do. The only other avenue I can think for Yamaha sleds is a limited build of pure Yamaha sleds from Japan that would be aok but very expensive products.

Why would Yamaha purchase a snowmobile company after running theirs into the ground. They decided it was not worth it. The new Textron guy has stated that Yamaha is a valued customer and engine supplier...that is where we are at unfortunately....