OEM Agreement Between Yamaha & Textron

[Sasquatch]

I have two Yamacats in my garage and I love them!!! I was no longer able to ride the sit down chassis of the Apex or Vector, or deal with the small gas tanks of the Apex and Nytro. I love the Yamaha motor and I can ride this Yamacat all day long!!! And it handles well!!! As far as putting different motors in different chassis, manufactures of all vehicles have been been doing it forever. Ski-Doo===Rotax, Polaris===Fuji, Arctic Cat==Suzuki,Kawasaki etc.
Bottom line, Yamaha sells 10 times Yamacats to Apex.

I hope Yamaha continues to build sleds. I also hope they have learned from Artic Cat about chassis development. The procross chassis is light years ahead of the old Apex chassis, and no, I wont hear any arguments about it. You cant convince me otherwise. I have ridden tens of thousands of miles on those Yammi chassis and they don't hold a candle to the Procross. If you still like the old sit down style then you are in the very small, and disappearing minority.
Say what you want about Artic Cat, they have some of the most passionate snowmobile people in the world designing and building sleds. I want Yamaha to have the same passion.

And I hope Yamaha continues to build sleds as well! So far nothing from them since the last refinement in 2011! You like your Catamaha I like my Apex, I love the motor, I can and do ride it all day long and it handles well and no I won't hear any arguments about it! You can't convince me otherwise! Bottom line Yamaha sold a huge number of Delta box sleds since 2003 and most are still ridden today. Maybe that is Yamaha's undoing they built them to last forever!

As far as all the examples of different engines in sleds, not one sled changed its name over to the motor in it. Only Yamaha did that!

 

[Sasquatch]

I don't give a rat's tushy if you put a Fiat engine in a Procross & badge it a Yamaha! If it handles well & the engine is dependable (and angry) i'd be happy. I LOVE Yamaha's & would like to see an ALL Yamaha made sled, but i ride what works. This Procross with this 998 works. How it holds up is yet to be seen, but i'm having fun in big bumps, stutter bumps, corners, jumps and oh yes....STRAIGHTAFREEKINWAYS...the sled division is not about making money, but keeping Yamaha guys...............Yamaha guys

I believe Yamaha will stay in the sled business one way or another

I total agree the Cat procross is a good chassis! If Yamaha closed its door tomorrow you could buy a cat and keep ridding the same great chassis. If you think Yamaha is keeping Yamaha guys, well ahem, Yamaha guys I think you got fooled! Yamaha is selling engines and supplying dealers with Cats to sell. They stopped building sleds long ago!

I agree they will stay in as an engine builder but as a chassis builder I don't think they have the mojo anymore! As all the Cat procross riders keep reminding me, Yamaha sucks at building sleds!

 

[Trussman]

Not so much beating up the Catamaha, please don't call it a Yamacat they don't call a Dodge Ram with a Cummins engine a Cummins or a Ram with a Fiat engine a Fiat, a Ford with an International engine a International. Dropping your engine in someones Chassis and putting your sticker on it does not make it yours. Im more not in line with giving Cat all of Yamaha's thunder. When you can buy the exact same sled from Cat with the only difference being the clutches and then somehow that becomes the brand specific loyalty you can hang your hat on, makes me long for a sled built by Yamaha for Yamaha. That I can put brand identity on. I just don't see clutches as a defining point. If I buy a Cat and put Yamaha clutches on it does it make it a Yamaha?

But maybe it's been done before.....







1975 Suzuki Fury build by Arctic Cat

The performance-minded company tried to go the racing-promotion route with unsuccessful attempts in cross-country and oval racing, culminating with four SnoPro sleds for the initial season of the factory racing circuit in winter 1973-74. Sadly, the Suzuki SnoPros were not competitive and became just another obscure footnote in snowmobile history. The company even tried to entice snowmobilers into another kind of racing, called snocross, but that didn’t get off the ground, either.

So the motorcycle giant changed strategy. It would have a hot sled built for them by someone else, but one that used Suzuki’s own powerful engine technology. Contract manufacturing was common in the burgeoning snowmobile industry, with numerous examples ranging from Polaris building badge-engineered Homelite and Sears sleds all the way to Skiroule manufacturing significantly different machines for Ariens.

The choice of a vendor was easy. Suzuki was already engaged in long-term engine testing with Arctic Enterprises Inc. who had a new, modern assembly facility in northwestern Minnesota. With demand for anything gas-powered falling sharply following the 1973 Arab oil embargo, Arctic Cat was actively looking for this kind of contract manufacturing business. Plus by 1974 Arctic Cat had many warranty issues with the Kawasaki powerplants and was looking for a new engine supplier for the 1976 season.

Thus the Suzuki Fury was born, with Arctic Enterprises getting a three-year contract to manufacture the new model. The 1975 Suzuki Fury was essentially a 1974 Arctic Cat El Tigré with a Suzuki engine instead of a Kawasaki powerplant under a new and unique hood.

 

[STAIN]

I got news for you, a lot of people can't drive the forward position machines because of their age & other problems. That is why they like the Vectors & Apex's & they are all true yamaha's and buy the way they get great gas mileage.

I find more older people riding BECAUSE of rider forward seating. More women also.

 

[yamadoo]

We 'older' riders are all different sizes and issues. I personally can and do ride both the Viper/AC chassis and like it, but I also like the sit down laid back of the Delta 2 chassis. ( I sit in more than one piece of furniture in my home). But some have shoulder or knee issues that do better on a specific chassis - not a best for all.

I have been on 2-300 mile days on both and don't have a strong preference.


Personally prefer Delta 2 for high speed lake or trail cruising stability, Viper not really sure I 'don't like' just always frustrated at not seeing triple digits for high speed cruising so my opinion may be biased. For tight, rough twisty trails I like the Viper/procross chassis hands down. Own to his each as my buddy used to say.

I am blessed to have both in our 'family stable' so can choose the right tool for the day.

Yamadoo

 

[Sasquatch]

But maybe it's been done before.....


1975 Suzuki Fury build by Arctic Cat

The performance-minded company tried to go the racing-promotion route with unsuccessful attempts in cross-country and oval racing, culminating with four SnoPro sleds for the initial season of the factory racing circuit in winter 1973-74. Sadly, the Suzuki SnoPros were not competitive and became just another obscure footnote in snowmobile history. The company even tried to entice snowmobilers into another kind of racing, called snocross, but that didn’t get off the ground, either.

So the motorcycle giant changed strategy. It would have a hot sled built for them by someone else, but one that used Suzuki’s own powerful engine technology. Contract manufacturing was common in the burgeoning snowmobile industry, with numerous examples ranging from Polaris building badge-engineered Homelite and Sears sleds all the way to Skiroule manufacturing significantly different machines for Ariens.

The choice of a vendor was easy. Suzuki was already engaged in long-term engine testing with Arctic Enterprises Inc. who had a new, modern assembly facility in northwestern Minnesota. With demand for anything gas-powered falling sharply following the 1973 Arab oil embargo, Arctic Cat was actively looking for this kind of contract manufacturing business. Plus by 1974 Arctic Cat had many warranty issues with the Kawasaki powerplants and was looking for a new engine supplier for the 1976 season.

Thus the Suzuki Fury was born, with Arctic Enterprises getting a three-year contract to manufacture the new model. The 1975 Suzuki Fury was essentially a 1974 Arctic Cat El Tigré with a Suzuki engine instead of a Kawasaki powerplant under a new and unique hood.

Nice read. Deal did not last, it was a one year wonder and if its used as an example Suzuki dropped out of snowmobiles and became an engine supplier for Cat! Kawasaki bought snow-Jet in 1976 and produced a new sled badged as a Sno-jet till 1977 then they dropped it and made Kawasaki sleds till 1982. Again not a good outcome! At least not one I want to see!

 

[stevewithOCD]

Nice read. Deal did not last, it was a one year wonder and if its used as an example Suzuki dropped out of snowmobiles and became an engine supplier for Cat! Kawasaki bought snow-Jet in 1976 and produced a new sled badged as a Sno-jet till 1977 then they dropped it and made Kawasaki sleds till 1982. Again not a good outcome! At least not one I want to see!

Ya but that Invader was a bad #*$&@ machine!

 

[Sasquatch]

It seems that any argument put forward that Yamaha needs to build their own chassis rather then become an engine builder always turns into the Procross is better then Delta Box argument. Leading to the defense of the procross Cat chassis as superior and the Yamaha Delta Box as inferior! The argument never was about the DeltaBox or Procross! Its about Yamaha giving up and taking a back seat to Arctic Cat! Cat has a passion for sleds and innovation out the ying yang. Yamaha has proven they have it as well, but somehow they lost it. Staying in the sled business is a given at this point as per textron still using them as an engine builder. But whatever happened to Yamaha as a sled builder, an innovator? The DeltaBox used Aluminum and later Cast aluminum bulkheads for strength and a never heard of four stroke performance engine. Then they just quit and pushed the easy button! Well after the Nytro fiasco!

Textron owning Arctic Cat has not changed anything from all reports.

 

[thor452]

I still have hope that Yamaha has been developing a new chassis with the 5 year break they have had from sled building. I am wrong more than I am right sometimes but that is a different discussion. If they were to put all the new tech they have developed into a new chassis I think they could cause a surge in buyers that could put them back in the upper half of the market. I am not against what they did with cat to stay in the market while rebuilding and moving to north America. lots of people bought their products they got lots of attention and it proves that people still want to buy Yamaha even if they can get the same thing with a cat sticker. I for one don't care for the ride of the procross chassis it just don't feel as stable at speed same issue I have with Doo. Maybe I don't have enough seat time on the Chassis and also I didn't own one so I never set it up the way I would want it to be either. I would love to see a new chassis with a seating position like the apex with wrp seat power steering the front shocks off the 2018 apex with a frontend designed to work perfect with them around 144 track bring back the tipped rails and turbo the current motor with mods to keep it safe on pump gas and produce around 245 HP stock. Think of the people that would come running for that one.

 

[trailhed1]

I would love to see a new chassis with a seating position like the apex with wrp seat power steering the front shocks off the 2018 apex with a frontend designed to work perfect with them around 144 track bring back the tipped rails and turbo the current motor with mods to keep it safe on pump gas and produce around 245 HP stock. Think of the people that would come running for that one.

Now you're talking. Sign me up.

 

[pdiddy]

It's all gonna come down to how much heart Yamaha has in sleds today bean-counters be damned. I just can't think of a more passionate consumer than your above average mile snowmobiler. The sidewinder confirms they like to build up a good mother-load of spermatozoa before blasting all over the general snowmobiling public. I say the Yamaha volcano can go off at any time - cover your eyes! Interestingly enough, tonight I came across a class A amp of 1200WPC called the MX10000 that I had never knew existed. Check this out http://www.thevintageknob.org/yamaha-MX-10000.html. To me that just spells passion! It's there. Bean counters will not prevail. Yamaha will make a sled one way or another just because. Besides, the Squatch will need a new ride in a few years!

 

[ricardo]

I still have hope that Yamaha has been developing a new chassis with the 5 year break they have had from sled building. I am wrong more than I am right sometimes but that is a different discussion. If they were to put all the new tech they have developed into a new chassis I think they could cause a surge in buyers that could put them back in the upper half of the market. I am not against what they did with cat to stay in the market while rebuilding and moving to north America. lots of people bought their products they got lots of attention and it proves that people still want to buy Yamaha even if they can get the same thing with a cat sticker. I for one don't care for the ride of the procross chassis it just don't feel as stable at speed same issue I have with Doo. Maybe I don't have enough seat time on the Chassis and also I didn't own one so I never set it up the way I would want it to be either. I would love to see a new chassis with a seating position like the apex with wrp seat power steering the front shocks off the 2018 apex with a frontend designed to work perfect with them around 144 track bring back the tipped rails and turbo the current motor with mods to keep it safe on pump gas and produce around 245 HP stock. Think of the people that would come running for that one.

Sounds like a giant step backwards to me. If I understand your post correctly you want an Apex XTX with a Sidewinder 998(cranked up to 245- easily done). Why bother? How would you even attempt to sell it?

 

[thor452]

Sounds like a giant step backwards to me. If I understand your post correctly you want an Apex XTX with a Sidewinder 998(cranked up to 245- easily done). Why bother? How would you even attempt to sell it?

no I want a apex motor cranked up. you can keep the 3 hole motor for your cat.

 

[Sasquatch]

It's all gonna come down to how much heart Yamaha has in sleds today bean-counters be damned. I just can't think of a more passionate consumer than your above average mile snowmobiler. The sidewinder confirms they like to build up a good mother-load of spermatozoa before blasting all over the general snowmobiling public. I say the Yamaha volcano can go off at any time - cover your eyes! Interestingly enough, tonight I came across a class A amp of 1200WPC called the MX10000 that I had never knew existed. Check this out http://www.thevintageknob.org/yamaha-MX-10000.html. To me that just spells passion! It's there. Bean counters will not prevail. Yamaha will make a sled one way or another just because. Besides, the Squatch will need a new ride in a few years!

Squatch is fine with his 2011, still under 12,000 miles on it and good for twice that and then some. Brian is close to 30,000kms on his! I have 18,000 miles on my Warrior and it runs like new! If Yamaha is done and an engine builder only, I can ride this till I die or quit sledding (maybe the same time). I have looked at a touring sled but the triple turns me off. Maybe put a seat on the back of the Apex swap in 2200 NM springs and call it a touring sled. Basically the sled Yamaha should have built 15 years ago!

 

[Sasquatch]

Sounds like a giant step backwards to me. If I understand your post correctly you want an Apex XTX with a Sidewinder 998(cranked up to 245- easily done). Why bother? How would you even attempt to sell it?

Im with Thor but don't understand the Giant step backwards comment, other then the running down of the Apex which is renowned for its stability, durability and engine. Those who bought it for those things where not disappointed. Those who did not where! A new Yamaha built chassis needs Apex stability, durability and engine but with an addition of Cat agility and ride. I agree a Yamaha built Chassis, Yamaha chain case, riding with my knees against the cowl sucks and hurts so don't do it ( buying knee pads for the cowl is not the answer), wind protection a must have, XTX tipped rail, add the 18 front shocks, EPS of course and a four hole Apex engine. I'm not into turbos but the jack shaft driven supercharger with a mild boost is an option that is interesting. Leaving the hole with 150 plus hp and ramping up to 180 plus intrigues the hell out of me! Im perfectly fine however with a stock NA Apex engine making 150hp. Top end of 110 to 120 on snow not ice with only 150hp just seems more efficient then the 998 prototype with 204hp that was said to make 116 on snow.

I would love a kit from Yamaha to put the supercharger on my Apex!