On the wrong end of the rope :(

[4strokeluvr111]

Friday started out beautiful with flat trails, blue skis and (too) warm temps. I friend and I had traveled to the Arrowhead region of MN for a 3 day trip. My friend had a brand new Doo 600 Blizzard to break in. He's not brand loyal....the Doo's just fit him better. He actually has a few Yamaha bikes.

In the first 20 miles we stopped 2X to kinda check things over. The exhaust can had some type of coating on it that really smoked while it was burning off. We just wanted to make sure hat everything was OK under the hood. He adjusted the carbides down for a little better grip (it worked!...it's not a gimmick).

At an intersection 30 miles in we stopped again. All was OK and not smoking anymore. I went to turn the key to let the fuel pump spool up....no problem...went to start the sled....the gauges went blank and a heard a very high pitched squeal. I released the key and heard a series of clicks and the gauges came back on.

Tried it again.....same thing. I just had the sled into the dealer and they replaced the 8HF-15590-00-00
STARTER ONE-WAY ASSY because my starter was acting up...like it was not "catching" all the time. I wanted this fixed before it totally failed and left me stranded.

I said.....WTF! Was this repair done done properly and maybe my battery now was drained to the point of not having enough juice to turn the starter? Remember, we stopped 2X before this and there was no issue or hint of a problem.

We tried jumping the sled with the new Doo......no change. I carry a multimeter with me and the battery was reading 12.3V (good) and when you turned the key to start it went down to the 3v area. I called both my dealer and another dealer.....both said the battery took a crap.

EDIT - we tried putting a rope on the primary and pulling it....no luck.

So...hooked the Vector to the back of the new Doo and towed it to the nearest road crossing. Flagged down a nice local retired couple who offered to drive me the 20 miles to my truck and trailer. Loaded my sled onto the trailer and took it to the nearest dealer to get a battery. It just so happened to be a Yam-Pol-Doo dealer. I changed the battery in the parking lot by myself and went to start it.....SAME THING!

As it was almost closing time a mechanic had come outside to move some sleds around. He came over by me asking what was up. I told him and he asked me to repeat the start sequence while he listened in the relay area. Ne noted some corrosion on the relay but it shouldn't be enough to stater from turning at all.
His diagnosis was either a dead short in the battery or a magnet came loose and is jamming the starter form turning.

So my trip was over almost before it had even started. My Yamaha extended warranty has trip interruption insurance but it will not even come close to covering the expenses involved.....forget about that for a moment. We all know the season is too short as it is....no amount of $$$ will help this.

I checked out the Yamaha parts fiche and have determined that the Stater Motor Assy 8GL-81890-00-00 is the same on Vector's from 2010 up to 2016. It's also the same on Vipers from 2014 to 2016.

I didn't type this all to complain......really! Stuff happens and I know that! The issue seems to have gotten big enough that my dealer is stocking starters not just for the Viper problem, but Vectors as well.

I'm starting (no pun intended) to wonder if I should pay for an aftermarket starter to be put in. If a Yamaha starter is put in, everytime I go to turn the key I'll be wondering if the starter is going to work.

 

[theCATman]

Since this happened when the engine was warm/hot, you could have easily wrapped a couple feet of your tow rope around the clutch, gave her a pull & it would have started very easy.

I know this doesn't help now, but future reference. Unless... the spark & or injectors are controlled by the ECM, and the damn thing looks for starter engagement before it turns either or both on ??

Maybe someone knows?

Sent from my SCH-R970 using Tapatalk

 

[4strokeluvr111]

Since this happened when the engine was warm/hot, you could have easily wrapped a couple feet of your tow rope around the clutch, gave her a pull & it would have started very easy.

I know this doesn't help now, but future reference. Unless... the spark & or injectors are controlled by the ECM, and the damn thing looks for starter engagement before it turns either or both on ??

Maybe someone knows?

Sent from my SCH-R970 using Tapatalk

I should have put this in my original post. We tried this 4X and it didn't work. 2 different ropes and one big guy who stopped to help. I think one needs the right kind of rope....something that will get a good grip on the primary. We didn't have that. I watched a Youtube video a week or so ago where some guys started a Viper this way....but they used another sled to pull the rope!

 

[theCATman]

Copy that.

I did it once with a regular, flat woven ratchet strap type strap on my old RS Nytro just to see if it was possible. It was on a hot engine, but I'd only try on a stone cold one if very desperate.

 

[grizztracks]

I'd change the starter relay also when you install a new starter. If the relay stuck it could have overheated the starter and caused the failure. This was a common problem on the Nytro's until they updated the starter relay.

 

[4strokeluvr111]

I'd change the starter relay also when you install a new starter. If the relay stuck it could have overheated the starter and caused the failure. This was a common problem on the Nytro's until they updated the starter relay.

Is the relay the part just to the right of the battery?

 

[grizztracks]

Yes, it's mounted on the right side of the battery carriage. Also clean up any corrosion and put some dielectric grease on the connector.

 

[4strokeluvr111]

Yes, it's mounted on the right side of the battery carriage. Also clean up any corrosion and put some dielectric grease on the connector.

There was some corrosion on it the the mechanic pointed out to me. When I dropped it off at the dealer yesterday I asked them to clean it up. Maybe I'll ask them to replace it....doubtful that they would under warranty. I'll to the dielectric thing myself.

 

[Deeppow16]

I should have put this in my original post. We tried this 4X and it didn't work. 2 different ropes and one big guy who stopped to help. I think one needs the right kind of rope....something that will get a good grip on the primary. We didn't have that. I watched a Youtube video a week or so ago where some guys started a Viper this way....but they used another sled to pull the rope!

I had to pull start my buddies vector last year because of a dead battery way out in the bush. You have to be a very strong guy and pull that sucker pretty fast to get it to go. I just a strap from a racket and wrap it around the clutch about 8 times so you get a lot of spins from one pull.

 

[4strokeluvr111]

UPDATE - was at the dealer today. They were getting ready to lift the engine up. The same mechanic who installed the One Way Assy is working on the starter. He noticed right away a significant amount of corrosion on the relay terminals that he said wasn't there when he replaced the One Way Assy. I didn't see it either before now. It was fairly bad and they replaced it under warranty.

Mechanic thinks there's a dead short in the starter and he's going to take it apart to see exactly what the cause was. Will update when I know more.

 

[kinger]

Bummer to ruin a trip, trails looked awesome. knock on wood my highly modded beat on sc apex has only come in once on the rope on the last day of the trip. I have been lucky!

 

[4strokeluvr111]

Thanks Kinger!

UPDATE - was at the dealer today. Learned that when they changed the One Way Assy, they did in fact put in a new starter. It was this new starter that failed. The wrench took this new starter apart to find out why it failed. It looks as if the starter kept running after it's last start cycle then overheated and melted all the internal wiring then it locked up tight. They are now placing the blame on a faulty starter relay.

Between the time of the replacement of the One Way Assy/Starter and last Friday's 30 mile ride the relay became somewhat corroded. Again, the relay is being replaced.

Starter came in via FedEx while I was there and the sled should be ready for pickup tomorrow or Friday.

Keep an eye on those 8HG-81940-00-00 starter relays folks! Any excessive corrosion...maybe replace it?

EDIT - the wrench said that if the relay had shown the same amount of corrosion back then as it did this week, he would have replaced it too.

 

[Metallicat]

I've cleaned my relay twice due to excessive corrosion. I think I will replace it next fall rather than risk failure from bad contacts. Load the new one up with dielectric.

 

[lockburner2000]

I replaced my relay with the starter. The relay was toast after the starter locked up. Fluid filmed the connections after install.

 

[hibshman25]

I think Yamaheater Rock makes a "starter saver" which detects a stuck relay.