Performance Exhaust

[shadow44]

The reason AAEN has higher HP numbers is because they use a crank dyno where as excell used a track dyno. The track dyno is the more acurate of the two. Non the less AAEN makes a great product as well, as Hindle, and Excell.

Lol, nice edit

 

[nate007]

Dyno numbers are just like saying "ours has the highest horsepower claim of any manufacturer". Its a totally subjective number that's in my opinion the most mis-used information for any manufacturer to use as a sales pitch.
I deal with tuning and dyno situations on a daily basis, and although our current facility does not have a dyno, I work with partnering shops and have many years experience with tuning and I can say that I've had the same vehicle with the same parts/tune files on different dynos and have seen up to a 10% difference in numbers between two dynos of the same brand and model! Even more with different brands, ages, resistance types (eddy current vs. inertia).
The true use of any dyno as any experienced user/tuner will tell you is that a dyno is simply a tuning tool. It's only bi-product is that it spits out a number that is mis-used as a rating. The true use of a dyno is to fine tune any engine/chassis to it's best possible state, and to diagnose issues on a safe-controlled environment. Even if a dyno is used to tune any combination, it still wont get it perfect. We build lots of cammed/supercharged/turbo vehicles, and use a dyno to tune each one. No matter how great the dyno tune is, there are always minor drivability issues to work out, and only driving it and putting miles on it will work that out.
The only true way to settle the dyno issue would be to test every system on both different machines, and every system on ONE machine, on the SAME dyno, in the same day, under the same conditions. Truly, most sled riders aren't going to notice the minute difference in horsepower between systems anyway, and just like it was said before, buy on customer service, quality, and the sound you like! Dyno's are a great tool, but not an "end all" for whats better.
Unless you are going to be drag racing and scraping together every possible 100th of a second and ounce of weight it's really pointless to argue who's makes more power etc etc..

 

[basic700]

Buy them all. Take them to the dyno see whats the best and keep it then send the rest back.

 

[nate007]

So you're saying that you'll buy simply based on the highest dyno numbers only? No basis of quality, longevity, price, customer service, etc?
Have at it basic, buy all of them?
If someone can tell the difference in "real world" riding between a 6 horsepower gain and a 9 horsepower gain, you're in the wrong business.
I've personally ridden the same sled with 4 different muflers on it in the same day (no dyno) and couldn't tell any sort of realistic difference.
We will have dyno numbers later this fall to satisfy those who are dead set on it, but I won't put an emphasis on just power. Quality and function for the price are our main concerns.

 

[shadow44]

Dyno numbers are just like saying "ours has the highest horsepower claim of any manufacturer". Its a totally subjective number that's in my opinion the most mis-used information for any manufacturer to use as a sales pitch.
.

Nate, I'm having a hard time underdstanding your statements regarding dynos and dynoing products. I understand that every dyno is different and that every sled will not make the same HP numbers ( both baseline and final )....but if a manufacturer is making a product and dynoing it to measure its gain, the product should roughly make the same gain on any sled on any dyno..or at least very close to it.

My sled has been on 2 different dynos, at different times of the year and has had different baseline and final numbers..however that exhaust made almost the exact same gains.

I don't really see how that is mis-used information...in my eyes dynos are for measuring gains made by adding a product first and foremost...and then used to tune that product to take advantage of the gain made.

 

[nate007]

Yes, your statements are correct, but how many poeple actually buy product "x" over product "y" because it makes one more horsepower? "Roughly" is the operative word, but it seems like there are a lot of people that take those numbers/claims just a bit too seriously.
Almost any exhaust is going to make a great improvement, but my point is that just because a dyno says it makes "**" more power, doesn't mean everybody is going to see those gains. It's frustrating to see so many people focussed so heavilly on a magic dyno number, when whatever number that is really doesn't matter since it'll be different on every sled. Sleds aren't like cars, in that the efi systems aren't smart enought to compensate for themselves and run consistantly from sled to sled. If and when I provide numbers for our system, I'm not going to stake my business name that every customer is going to see the same gains? Some may see more, some may not see as much. My whole point is that no one should sell a product "promising" gains. A statement of " our testing on our machines netted an average gain of ..." would be more accurate.
When you are talking about having your sled on two different dynos, I would expect that you wont see the same numbers, but a gain of "x" horsepower, which is realistically only approx 5%+/- , should be pretty consistant.
All in all, most systems will gain power, 99% of most riders couldn't realistically see 1hp or so difference between systems.
We will be doing dyno time on both Apex and Nytro systems, for our exhaust, as well as a few other performance products we're developing as we speak... There simply aren't any sled dyno's in our area, so we're holding off until we have more machines and product's to make a trip more conclusive and and effective use of time and money. We have 20+ years experience in the automotive performance market, and are bringing some of that experience and technology to the Yamaha sled market later this fall. Stay tuned..

 

[revster]

Nate I hear what you are saying in regards to too much weight being put on specific numbers however I agree with Shadow that I for one would not put down any money without seeing some Dyno results. I agree that other factors should be taken into consideration such as build quality, price and customer service/reputation however I wanna see some examples of what it will do on a Nytro and have some dyno tuned fuel maps to run with it.

It's nice to see that a stock nytro made X HP then we put on our exhaust and it made Y, same sled, same dyno, same day. But again I agree with you that what one company's results are can't be directly compared to another if they are done on different dynos on different days on different sleds.

I'm posting this purely from a customer's perspective. I'm not pretending to have anywhere near the knowledge that you, Hindle/Hurrican or Excell/Ulmer have.

 

[shadow44]

Yes, your statements are correct, but how many poeple actually buy product "x" over product "y" because it makes one more horsepower? "Roughly" is the operative word, but it seems like there are a lot of people that take those numbers/claims just a bit too seriously.
Almost any exhaust is going to make a great improvement, but my point is that just because a dyno says it makes "**" more power, doesn't mean everybody is going to see those gains. It's frustrating to see so many people focussed so heavilly on a magic dyno number, when whatever number that is really doesn't matter since it'll be different on every sled. Sleds aren't like cars, in that the efi systems aren't smart enought to compensate for themselves and run consistantly from sled to sled. If and when I provide numbers for our system, I'm not going to stake my business name that every customer is going to see the same gains? Some may see more, some may not see as much. My whole point is that no one should sell a product "promising" gains. A statement of " our testing on our machines netted an average gain of ..." would be more accurate.
When you are talking about having your sled on two different dynos, I would expect that you wont see the same numbers, but a gain of "x" horsepower, which is realistically only approx 5%+/- , should be pretty consistant.
All in all, most systems will gain power, 99% of most riders couldn't realistically see 1hp or so difference between systems.
We will be doing dyno time on both Apex and Nytro systems, for our exhaust, as well as a few other performance products we're developing as we speak... There simply aren't any sled dyno's in our area, so we're holding off until we have more machines and product's to make a trip more conclusive and and effective use of time and money. We have 20+ years experience in the automotive performance market, and are bringing some of that experience and technology to the Yamaha sled market later this fall. Stay tuned..

Now I understand ya...and you are correct...when my sled went to DTR and in the winter and Hurricane in the fall the baselines and final results were very different...however the gains made by just the addition of the exhaust were nearly identical on both dynos...barely 1hp difference.

I agree with revster....for my money I want the best built product, great customer service and the most power I can get from it.

 

[nate007]

I do totally agree with both of you, and my point to sum all this up is simply that there are far more factors involved than just having the most power gain. We've eliminated the donuts, the flex couplers, added 02 bungs to every system, and a block off plate to eliminate the snow and ice buildup common with these sleds. I've used a very expensive alloy (321) for our tubing and mufflers to increase lifespan as much as possible, ans worked very hard to eliminate as many quirks as I can from the factory system. However confident in our power gains I am, if another system beats us by one hp, we'll still out run them because we'll keep you up to 40 lbs lighter! LOL!
I've spent countless hours just re-designing the muffler cores of our system to eliminate failures, and fit systems to countless more sleds just to ensure they fit the best they can from one sled to another. The work is ongoing, and it has pushed production back several times, but as a site member and friend to many people here, I want to be sure my product and reputation aren't jepardized by a hasty build. I'm definitely guilty of spending more hours in the shop welding, fabricating and testing than I am selling and working online.
I have 50 more sets of these ready to ship at the factory, and finalizing the Apex prototype right now. We did some db testing last night, but I don't know if I trust the little decible meter I have. It showed around 113 at 4000 rpm, 4 feet off the ground, approx 4 feet directly behind the sled. My riding lawnmower showed 121. With the two different baffles in it, it showed approx a 4 db reduction in sound. there is a you tube video of the actual sled we tested, made last winter, showing the sled at idle and a full throttle pass. Check it out:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6lRAI2lbpwY. It does not have the block off plate, and I have pics of that I will get from my camera shortly and post. Most of our shop photos are rough design pics, but the tunnel plate design is the final design, and production should be finished now.

 

[nate007]

Here's a pic of the tunnel plate. It sandwiches between the tunnel and the original muffler cover/seat mount.

 

[NytroRTX0822]

I myself love the sound of the Skinz Ultra Q exhaust. Not to loud, but a nice tone.

 

[09NytroRTX]

Nate, that looks like a very nice setup...