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Phazer engine HELP needed, non-sled application.

Likely the crank sensor. It's normal that they don't fire are the same time according to the intake stroke. At this point, I'm thinking something with either the wiring, crank sensor or pcm. Could also still be something with the tps as this hasn't been ruled out yet. We don't really know how the pcm reacts to the tps while starting (ie: it thinks the throttle is being opened).

There was someone here that bought an 07 venture lite that was parked for 6 years. No trouble starting.
 

Thanks Moose.

So maybe the extra pulse is a cold start thing?

I disconnected the cam sensor and the injectors stopped pulsing.

Is the crank sensor an external item? I cant find it in the manual.

Pretty sure the TPS is ok.

I also ordered another ECM just to make sure.
 
If the crank sensor was bad it would not run. You would see a code 12.

If you wanted to check the sensor even further here is the readings you should get.

Crankshaft position sensor resistance:
189 ~ 231 Ω at 20 °C (68 °F)
(Gray – Black)

Do you have the wiring diagrams? That way you could find the coupler by following the wires from the ECU.
 
Thanks Yami,

Yes I have a manual.

I cant find any info on the crank sensor in it though.

Just that if its bad ,replace it.

What would make one injector pulse more than the other? does it do this during cold start mode? One side only?

I'm about out of ideas.
 
Sorry, I can't answer that question as I am unsure. I would pull the injectors off my sled to check for you (and I am curious) but I am 4 hrs away from my sled.

I was also unable to find any other info then that.

Just throwing it out there, I have chased weird problems before and traced it back to a weak battery even after I charged it. If you have a different battery you could hook up it may be worth the 5 mins.

I almost bought a new ECU when what I needed was a new battery.

How are the grounds? I know the wiring has been modified in you're application but early Phazers were melting grounding blocks causing issues. I am also running out of ideas!
 
What would make one injector pulse more than the other?

Resistance

You are thinking pulses but you should be thinking time open. The difference in your video is because when less voltage is applied to a injector it operates slower or not at all. That low voltage is caused by resistance. Just use a voltmeter to check voltage. When key is on one of the wires going to the injector will have 12 volts to it. The ECU provides ground for however long is needed to provide enough fuel for conditions. To measure the ground/ECU side you will have to use a Ohmeter from the injector ground wire to the pin in the ECU plug it goes to. Measure both injectors wiring and compare the two. It will be obvious. If not then either your pin in the ECU is damaged or ECU is shot. All this is thrown out the door if you dont have at least a good battery since electricity will go to path of least resistance even a small difference could make differences in the injectors. In my experience you need 11-14V for everything to work correctly even while cranking the starter over.(load test)
 
No no no...do not do that. I cant have someone potentially damaging thier ride to help my dumbazz out. I apreciate the help though.

Battery is basically new and very good quality. I left the key on overnight right before making that vid,thats why I had the charger hooked up.At first I didnt realize just how low it was.The vid with the charger is basically what it looks like with out the charger now after trickle charging the battery. The grounds should be good.They are clean and solidly mounted to the frame. There is no ground block,just a big bolt to bare steel on the frame.


yamahas said:
Sorry, I can't answer that question as I am unsure. I would pull the injectors off my sled to check for you (and I am curious) but I am 4 hrs away from my sled.

I was also unable to find any other info then that.

Just throwing it out there, I have chased weird problems before and traced it back to a weak battery even after I charged it. If you have a different battery you could hook up it may be worth the 5 mins.

I almost bought a new ECU when what I needed was a new battery.

How are the grounds? I know the wiring has been modified in you're application but early Phazers were melting grounding blocks causing issues. I am also running out of ideas!
Click to expand...
 
See above for batt. explanation.

Yeah,I say pulse just because its easy.I mean pulse width. I understand injectors a little bit. So your saying if the wires going to the the injector that seems to be double "pulsing" have higher resistance than the others, it will hold the injector open longer ? I will check them, I have to pull the ECM to add the grip warmer wires back in anyway.

The #1 injector is definately double firing,causing a VERY rich, engine stopping, condition. Now, what I dont know is ,why? Is this standard for cold start? If it is,why just one cylinder? Is my engine never getting out of cold start mode? (sorry if I asked this already ,Thinking out loud)

I'll post another vid so you guys can see/hear what it sounds like when I try to rev it up a bit.

Here you go, it wont even idle like that anymore, I'm not trying to rev it very fast either, even though it looks that way.

http://youtu.be/wclCTe1UqOo



cannondale27 said:
What would make one injector pulse more than the other?

Resistance

You are thinking pulses but you should be thinking time open. The difference in your video is because when less voltage is applied to a injector it operates slower or not at all. That low voltage is caused by resistance. Just use a voltmeter to check voltage. When key is on one of the wires going to the injector will have 12 volts to it. The ECU provides ground for however long is needed to provide enough fuel for conditions. To measure the ground/ECU side you will have to use a Ohmeter from the injector ground wire to the pin in the ECU plug it goes to. Measure both injectors wiring and compare the two. It will be obvious. If not then either your pin in the ECU is damaged or ECU is shot. All this is thrown out the door if you dont have at least a good battery since electricity will go to path of least resistance even a small difference could make differences in the injectors. In my experience you need 11-14V for everything to work correctly even while cranking the starter over.(load test)
Click to expand...
 
I dont believe the number one injector is double pulsing or if it is it is normal. Like I said many modern motors the spark is fired every revolution at start. Called Total loss. The fuel on cold start is way different rate than running. What is happening is the number two is so slow it takes more than one revolution of the motor to get anything out and even then it is very little. Watching your videos the pulse and spray of the number one is just like every other injector spray I have ever seen. Normal. Your plug color and fouling is more than likely just caused from starting and stopping it so many times and a low idle from only running on one cylinder.
 
With the battery charged no2 is like you said, seems fine. Its hard to tell from the vid but no1 is pulsing twice for every one of the other cyclinder,and it seems to be every revolution. Its really putting out a lot of fuel! And like I/ you said this could be from the start-up mode. But I have run the engine up to temperature and the bog never goes away and the plug gets blacker and blacker on No1. I have replaced the plugs and tried starting it without touching the throttle, but it just wont start. As soon as I crack the throttle it starts right up. Like it needs air to compensate for all the fuel.
 
Maybe I mixed up the cyl numbers but anyway the injector in your video that is putting out LESS fuel is NOT normal. I called that one Number 2. At this point if the plug is not fouled dont worry about the color of it. The way your motor is running the color of that plug means nothing. Simple test to prove it. With motor running as at high rpm as you can get it to(within reason) remove the plug from one coil and note rpm. Then do the other. Bet when you remove one that is making plug black engine dies. Another easier test is to feel (quickly and carefully) the exhaust manifold. Which side is hotter? Hot one is firing properly.
 
Aahhh....got it! Thanks for putting up with all my ramblings!

I will give that a try to see for sure which cylinder is firing.
 
Maybe instead of touching the exhaust pipes use an infrared thermometer :)
 
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