kbMTX
Newbie
I'm new to the forum, and thought I'd share some info on a new product that Schmidt Bros will be releasing soon. It's a little lengthy, but I've learned a ton from other detailed posts on this site, and thought I'd share my experience. My sled is a stock 2007 MTX with low miles, with 1.5" freeride track.
THE PROBLEM:
I just got the sled this year, and was putting it on its side 2-3 times every ride. I live in the Algoma district in Northern Ontario, Canada (just north of the Sault), and my riding is normally backcoutry..... rugged powerlines and lake to lake riding. We've had a ton of snow this winter, so there's been no lack of flatland powder. I expected to lay it down once in a while horsing around in the powerlines, but it seemed like I was the only one with the track facing the sky (my friends ride an M6 Mountaincat, and a Renegade). I've been riding all my life, so its not like I'm a nuby rider. Its imbarrasing being the only guy rolling your sled. I stiffined the front shocks and moved the ski spacers to the widest setting, but it didn't seem to help much. I found that whenever I rode any sort of side slope (even mild) it wanted to dive and roll down the hill. I also found that any dip to either side in the twisty trails between lakes would cause the nose to dive into the dip, also feeling like a potential rollover. Bottom line, riding wasn't as fun because I didn't trust/understand the handling. I realized that some of the problem was my learning curve with the high centre of gravity, and rider forward position..... but I came to a crossroads.... either research some upgrades to improve the handling, or sell the sled for something more familiar. There were many things I liked about the sled... including the comfort factor, the 4-stroke factor (my first), the looks, lots of travel, jumps well, good hookup, and even the power/speed are adequate for my use. I decided to attempt some upgrades... and that's where Schmidt Brothers came in.
THE SOLUTION:
I emailed and spoke to Chris at Schmidt Brothers (from reading posts on this forum), and we spoke at length about my issues. I really like his first piece of advice about trying the suspension settings at the extremes to get an understanding of how they affect things (ie. go for a ride with the shocks set to the softest, and then the stiffest)... both front end and track. This helped my understanding. He also stated what I already discovered.... that the stock steel bodied shocks on the MTX do not perform well. Starting with the front end, he suggested that upgrading the stabilizer bar and front shocks would make a world of difference. Here's where I lucked out. Chris had just finished testing a new prototype stabilizer bar that is a direct replacement for the original. It has the same basic shape as the original, but is larger diamater. I believe that my stock bar is 15mm diamater, and the prototype from Chris is 3mm bigger (I could be out slightly on these numbers). Schmidt Bros is replacing their former sway bar kit (no longer available) with this less expensice version (will be available very soon). Chris was nice enough to sell me to prototype, which had one day of riding on it. I was leary of dropping the cash for a set of fox float2s for the front, so I decided to go with the sway bar for now, and the floats next season. He said that the sway bar would be the biggest bang for the buck.... and he was right.
REVIEW OF NEW SCHMIDT BROS SWAY BAR:
This sway bar makes a huge difference for me in all conditions on my MTX.
IN THE DEEP SNOW...... I was able to do controlled carves without dumping it on its side constantly. Before, I found the front end to be far too loose, which made it unpredictable when leaned over. For the first time, I was able to get on one ski and countersteer confidently into the carves.
IN THE TWISTIES.... In the rugged trails between lakes in my area, I found the sled far more stable in uneven terrain. With the original swaybar, the front end would dive if the trail dipped suddenly to either side.
ON THE FLATS..... I was able to corner much faster on the flats with much less lifting of the inside ski.
In a nutshell, the bar gave me more control and confidence in all conditions, which let me ride harder and faster than before. It was my first ride without rolling the sled (boondocking that is), and I was able to keep up with my friend's M6 all day. When I installed the bar, I also installed a set of yamaha bar end hooks.... which was also a big improvement for the money ($22 each). I won't say what I paid for the bar (as I don't know what the price point will be on the released version), but I suspect it will be less than half the cost of the previous more complex swaybar system they made. At this pricepoint, I think that Schmidt Bros is gonna sell a pile of these things.
I hope this helps others. Chris says the new swaybar kits should be avalible any day (could be already....). I don't have any pics handy, but I'll try to add some at a later date.
Kevin.
THE PROBLEM:
I just got the sled this year, and was putting it on its side 2-3 times every ride. I live in the Algoma district in Northern Ontario, Canada (just north of the Sault), and my riding is normally backcoutry..... rugged powerlines and lake to lake riding. We've had a ton of snow this winter, so there's been no lack of flatland powder. I expected to lay it down once in a while horsing around in the powerlines, but it seemed like I was the only one with the track facing the sky (my friends ride an M6 Mountaincat, and a Renegade). I've been riding all my life, so its not like I'm a nuby rider. Its imbarrasing being the only guy rolling your sled. I stiffined the front shocks and moved the ski spacers to the widest setting, but it didn't seem to help much. I found that whenever I rode any sort of side slope (even mild) it wanted to dive and roll down the hill. I also found that any dip to either side in the twisty trails between lakes would cause the nose to dive into the dip, also feeling like a potential rollover. Bottom line, riding wasn't as fun because I didn't trust/understand the handling. I realized that some of the problem was my learning curve with the high centre of gravity, and rider forward position..... but I came to a crossroads.... either research some upgrades to improve the handling, or sell the sled for something more familiar. There were many things I liked about the sled... including the comfort factor, the 4-stroke factor (my first), the looks, lots of travel, jumps well, good hookup, and even the power/speed are adequate for my use. I decided to attempt some upgrades... and that's where Schmidt Brothers came in.
THE SOLUTION:
I emailed and spoke to Chris at Schmidt Brothers (from reading posts on this forum), and we spoke at length about my issues. I really like his first piece of advice about trying the suspension settings at the extremes to get an understanding of how they affect things (ie. go for a ride with the shocks set to the softest, and then the stiffest)... both front end and track. This helped my understanding. He also stated what I already discovered.... that the stock steel bodied shocks on the MTX do not perform well. Starting with the front end, he suggested that upgrading the stabilizer bar and front shocks would make a world of difference. Here's where I lucked out. Chris had just finished testing a new prototype stabilizer bar that is a direct replacement for the original. It has the same basic shape as the original, but is larger diamater. I believe that my stock bar is 15mm diamater, and the prototype from Chris is 3mm bigger (I could be out slightly on these numbers). Schmidt Bros is replacing their former sway bar kit (no longer available) with this less expensice version (will be available very soon). Chris was nice enough to sell me to prototype, which had one day of riding on it. I was leary of dropping the cash for a set of fox float2s for the front, so I decided to go with the sway bar for now, and the floats next season. He said that the sway bar would be the biggest bang for the buck.... and he was right.
REVIEW OF NEW SCHMIDT BROS SWAY BAR:
This sway bar makes a huge difference for me in all conditions on my MTX.
IN THE DEEP SNOW...... I was able to do controlled carves without dumping it on its side constantly. Before, I found the front end to be far too loose, which made it unpredictable when leaned over. For the first time, I was able to get on one ski and countersteer confidently into the carves.
IN THE TWISTIES.... In the rugged trails between lakes in my area, I found the sled far more stable in uneven terrain. With the original swaybar, the front end would dive if the trail dipped suddenly to either side.
ON THE FLATS..... I was able to corner much faster on the flats with much less lifting of the inside ski.
In a nutshell, the bar gave me more control and confidence in all conditions, which let me ride harder and faster than before. It was my first ride without rolling the sled (boondocking that is), and I was able to keep up with my friend's M6 all day. When I installed the bar, I also installed a set of yamaha bar end hooks.... which was also a big improvement for the money ($22 each). I won't say what I paid for the bar (as I don't know what the price point will be on the released version), but I suspect it will be less than half the cost of the previous more complex swaybar system they made. At this pricepoint, I think that Schmidt Bros is gonna sell a pile of these things.
I hope this helps others. Chris says the new swaybar kits should be avalible any day (could be already....). I don't have any pics handy, but I'll try to add some at a later date.
Kevin.
MikeWalters
TY 4 Stroke Master
Nice write up.
How would you say it does riding on the edge of a road? I find mine wants to dive into the ditch badly. Can be a little scary at times. Weird feeling as I never experienced this with my old Phazer II or Vmax600.
I just stiffened front springs almost to max and removed the sway bar all together. Trying it out this weekend to see if it improves. I NEVER ride trails.
How would you say it does riding on the edge of a road? I find mine wants to dive into the ditch badly. Can be a little scary at times. Weird feeling as I never experienced this with my old Phazer II or Vmax600.
I just stiffened front springs almost to max and removed the sway bar all together. Trying it out this weekend to see if it improves. I NEVER ride trails.
kbMTX
Newbie
Hi Mike,
I experienced the same scary feeling when riding the side of the road (particularly when there is a steep ravine below). I haven't riden that exact condition since I put the swaybar on, but I am confident that it will improve the scarry feeling that you've described. The swaybar wouldn't allow the downhill ski shock to compress as independently from the uphill ski shock... which should give more stability. In my case, I lossened my ski spring pre-load to about middle (the mtx's have the 5 position preset) after installing the swaybar. I still plan on trying the other settings.... both looser and stiffer, combined with the new swaybar.... but i liked the feel so much on my first test ride that I didn't want to mess with it right away.
Your plan is to try the opposite strategy. In my opinion, your scary feeling is going to worsen with the swaybar removed, unless you put some serious body language into leaning on the uphill side. I jumped on my sled in the garage after removing the stock swaybar, just to see how it feels..... and it was scary loose when you shift from side to side. This might make it more maunverable if you're very skilled, and the snow is deep.... I'm not sure. I suspect that flat land or hard surface cornering without a swaybar would be outright scary.
My swaybar made all the difference for me, so I don't think I'll personally try taking it off. If you do try riding it with the swaybar off, let me know how it affects overall stability.
I experienced the same scary feeling when riding the side of the road (particularly when there is a steep ravine below). I haven't riden that exact condition since I put the swaybar on, but I am confident that it will improve the scarry feeling that you've described. The swaybar wouldn't allow the downhill ski shock to compress as independently from the uphill ski shock... which should give more stability. In my case, I lossened my ski spring pre-load to about middle (the mtx's have the 5 position preset) after installing the swaybar. I still plan on trying the other settings.... both looser and stiffer, combined with the new swaybar.... but i liked the feel so much on my first test ride that I didn't want to mess with it right away.
Your plan is to try the opposite strategy. In my opinion, your scary feeling is going to worsen with the swaybar removed, unless you put some serious body language into leaning on the uphill side. I jumped on my sled in the garage after removing the stock swaybar, just to see how it feels..... and it was scary loose when you shift from side to side. This might make it more maunverable if you're very skilled, and the snow is deep.... I'm not sure. I suspect that flat land or hard surface cornering without a swaybar would be outright scary.
My swaybar made all the difference for me, so I don't think I'll personally try taking it off. If you do try riding it with the swaybar off, let me know how it affects overall stability.
3wheelerdude
Expert
- Joined
- Jan 6, 2010
- Messages
- 226
- Location
- Ottawa Ontario
- Country
- Canada
- Snowmobile
- 2019 Voyageur 600
2019 ZR200
1991 Ovation 340
1986 XLV 540
Previous sleds: 1996 Vmax600, 2007 Phazer, 2016 Bearcat 3000
I dont know what to say since I did exactly the opposite to fix the same problem on my Phazer.
I took the sway bar off.
I ride hydro line, fields, back woods and ditches. A little bit of river runs.
Throwing the sway bar in the garbage as been my best upgrade on my Phazer so far and I have done quite a few.
I took the sway bar off.
I ride hydro line, fields, back woods and ditches. A little bit of river runs.
Throwing the sway bar in the garbage as been my best upgrade on my Phazer so far and I have done quite a few.
Jeffz
VIP Member
- Joined
- Feb 3, 2010
- Messages
- 600
- Location
- Cresco, Iowa
- Country
- USA
- Snowmobile
- 2008 Yamaha Nytro RTX 40th
2007 Phazer "RTX"
I found my Phazer to be un-rideable after removing the sway bar. Putting more air to the front shocks did nothing. It wouldn't corner on a trail at all. I could go maybe 30mph tops into a corner and the body roll was so bad. Glad to hear the Schmidt Bros. piece works for you.
kbMTX
Newbie
3wheelerdude.... I don't know what to say either.... its hard to comprehend how 2 opposite mods could achieve the same goal. I wish I would have taken it for a ride with my swaybar off completely to see what that feels like. I might do that.
In my case, my front shocks are the stock, soft rate MTX originals. Do you have upgraded front shocks that would reduce body roll on their own (like fox floats)? Also, I think that the other phazer models (like rtx) have stiffer front shock spings than the MTX, and better dampening/rebound abilities.
In my case, my front shocks are the stock, soft rate MTX originals. Do you have upgraded front shocks that would reduce body roll on their own (like fox floats)? Also, I think that the other phazer models (like rtx) have stiffer front shock spings than the MTX, and better dampening/rebound abilities.
MikeWalters
TY 4 Stroke Master
Jeffz said:
I wouldnt even try it on trails, I see the benefit there for sure.
MikeWalters
TY 4 Stroke Master
kbMTX said:
Yep going out this Sunday, maybe saturday afternoon too. Wont be going crazy but should give me a good idea if its right for me. Fields, ditches and backcountry is all we got here.
3-UP
Extreme
Do you have any pics of the new bar?
kbMTX
Newbie
3-UP said:
I don't have pics today, but I'll try to post some in the next couple days. It doesn't look much different than that stock bar.... just beefier, and silver colour. I had to drill out my stock plastic swaybar bushings with an 11/16 bit to mount it.... which was easy on a drill press. I believe that the kits from Schmidt Bros will come with properly sized new bushings.
stingray719
TY 4 Stroke God
After girlfriend had a rut yank the sled off the road I looked for a fix. And I found it by putting Camoplast All Terrain skis on, took a little fabbing but they are on. Girlfriend calls them "magic Skis" as they tamed the Phazer just like they tamed her Nytro and now her Viper. Please note we ride little trails and mostly steep and deep off trail powder, but these skis are very much like the Poo Grippers but slightly wider. IMO the stock Phazer MTX skis are too aggressive and yank the sled all over.
Friend is coming by this week and we are putting a set on his girlfriends sled.
Friend is coming by this week and we are putting a set on his girlfriends sled.
MikeWalters
TY 4 Stroke Master
Burned around in the field for 1/2 hour yesterday with no sway bar and tightened up front shocks. I am very pleased with it. First thing I noticed was way easier to turn around low speed in 6" of powder, it used to want to tip to the outside ski, now I can just lean in a bit and it turns. Rode on the edge of the road and it did not want to dive into the ditch with a bit of leaning. WAY better than before.
Still need to test some other situations but so far for me this is the way to go and should have done it the day I bought it. Highly recommended for backcountry riders. Easy enough to try it out, 10 minutes to take it out or put it back in.
I liked it so much that I might search for some stiffer springs for the front shocks, anyone know if there is a twisted spring kit or something you can add to the front springs?
I know that trail would be different story, but never ridden a trail since 1998...
Still need to test some other situations but so far for me this is the way to go and should have done it the day I bought it. Highly recommended for backcountry riders. Easy enough to try it out, 10 minutes to take it out or put it back in.
I liked it so much that I might search for some stiffer springs for the front shocks, anyone know if there is a twisted spring kit or something you can add to the front springs?
I know that trail would be different story, but never ridden a trail since 1998...
Jeffz
VIP Member
- Joined
- Feb 3, 2010
- Messages
- 600
- Location
- Cresco, Iowa
- Country
- USA
- Snowmobile
- 2008 Yamaha Nytro RTX 40th
2007 Phazer "RTX"
kbMTX said:
Sounds like they are selling the Nytro sway bar as an upgrade to the stock Phazer sway bar. I believe the Nytro uses an 18mm bar so that would explain the 3mm larger diameter. Did he say why they discontinued their aftermarket sway bar?
blueironranger
TY 4 Stroke God
- Joined
- Feb 3, 2009
- Messages
- 2,002
- Age
- 45
- Location
- Iron Range MN
- Country
- USA
- Snowmobile
- 2014 Viper XTX
2009 Phazer MTX
Jeffz said:
Nytros run a 13mm bar, phazer/FX/RTX run a 12mm. Phazer MTX has a 13mm bar (same as nytro) and the GT has a 13mm slider block adjustable bar.
Jeffz
VIP Member
- Joined
- Feb 3, 2010
- Messages
- 600
- Location
- Cresco, Iowa
- Country
- USA
- Snowmobile
- 2008 Yamaha Nytro RTX 40th
2007 Phazer "RTX"
My bad, thanks for the info.
