Please help new Phazer dangerously squirrely!

[michiganphazer]

Hey guys. First off I am a casual female rider, I've rode around the farm and on Michigan trails for pleasure a few times a year nothing too serious. I haven't worked on sleds much, haven't needed to til now. I just bought a used 2010 Phazer thinking it would be a good inexpensive trail sled. Being a low-mile newer sled I didn't expect any problems. It seemed like a WILD RIDE. It was darting so bad over 40mph I was scared of it. I have to muscle it constantly to keep it under control. Could there be something wrong with the sled? Other sleds I've ridden - which has been minimal but - they've handled easier than this.

After the first night of riding we looked closer and saw the cast aluminum piece the ski is connected to wasn't as straight as the other side. (sorry - again I am no mechanic but willing to learn. what is this piece called?) Not sure if it got dropped or what but it made the ski toe in slightly. So on the second day we adjusted the ski to toe out just a hair. This helped some but still tippy and just a constant struggle to make it go where I want. I have to take turns so slow. Even at 50+ it can dart unexpectedly on a straight fresh groomed trail. I know this is normal to a point on groomed trails but I feel it's going to flip if I don't keep a death grip on the handlebars. I have to put my whole body and strength into a turn and still a ski will come up when I'm not expecting it. I'm 120lbs in pretty good shape but it gave me a workout.

By the way there is very little play in the skis - and very little play in the handlebars. We will replace that cast piece but really I can't believe that makes this thing ride so rough. We had taken it to the local dealer for a check-over before taking it up north and they didn't notice anything out of the ordinary. I can't afford to have them work on it - is there anything that someone like me could check myself? Shocks? Skis? Any other adjustments or is this just the way a lightweight sled is? I have plenty of tools and a garage and help from a good friend. I am willing to put a few bucks into it and learn how to make changes before giving up on it but if this is common with this sled then maybe it just isn't the right sled for me. Any help would be greatly appreciated.

Also, the person I bought it from mentioned it has aftermarket skis. The track is also studded. The sled is overall in great shape and has low miles. Power-wise its great and sounds fine when running.

While I'm at it - reverse went out after the first few times of backing it up. Of course, on a narrow trail at the worst possible time. Took some on-off cycling to get it back in drive. Couldn't get it to work again after that - even on concrete. Any ideas?

 

[09phazergtWI]

-What year is the sled?
-Would it be possible to take and post a few pics of the skis, + a lower-angle shot showing the skis and carbides?
-Do you know what position your limiter strap is in, or have someone familiar with snowmobile suspensions (if you are not) able to take a look and give you this info.?

There seem to be a few counter issues going on here. Normally, heavy ski pressure would indeed produce more darting, but that goes against your feeling of reluctant cornering which can be the symptom of too-low ski pressure or insufficient carbide bite.

I was able to get my Phazer to corner just fine (to the point where it lifts a ski), while at the same time feeling very comfortable to reach top speed on straight, groomed trails, so I think the platform is capable of it. Being very rider-forward, it will for sure feel much more 'tippy' and 'high-centered' than an older sit-down sled, but I haven't flipped the thing for years and years, and that was only while learning how to side-hill it.

Hopefully others will chime in and we can aid in finding a solution.

 

[maim]

welcome to the site.

http://ty4stroke.com/threads/phazer-frequently-asked-questions.105636/ should have some answers but the easyest one is check the ski bias with it off of the ground. most need to add a shim to the rear of the rubber to get the tip up witch helps with the darting on most skis. toe out should be set at 1/8-1/4" toe out on most ski combos.

as to the reverse, did you try and rock the sled to make it move slightly? mine usually goes in when i do that and it is normal on this sled from what i have read.

 

[michiganphazer]

Thanks for the responses. Turns out I have to work tomorrow so this weekend I will post pics and check the limiter straps. To be honest I don't even know where those are at?
I did get a little better at high-speed (50+) turning such as on curvy roads. I learned how to move my body into the turns and "push" the bars rather than "turn". Feathering the throttle helps to kick the back end around on tighter turns.
But still is more work than it should be (I think!) I assumed that being a smaller sled it would be better for someone smaller like me. Maybe that's the wrong mindset.

As for reverse, I actually googled it while stuck, tried rocking it but I'm not very heavy. Also lifted the back end while someone tried engaging reverse. Nothing. The engine hesitates while trying to engage reverse - for lack of a better term. Wouldn't go in drive either until I shut it off a few times for a few seconds and back on. Really thought I was screwed for a moment there.

 

[No show]

The limiter strap is in the suspension of your track. It looks like a piece of belting.

 

[Snowmixer]

Hopefully this helps!

 

[sxr70001]

Probably a good set of dual carbides would help immensely. If you haven't ridden for a while a sled darting on a groomed trail can be terrifying. It happens because your runners get stuck in the tracks of other sleds in the trail and it jerks you around.

 

[emax73]

"After the first night of riding I looked closer and saw the cast aluminum piece the ski is connected to wasn't as straight as the other side"

Hi, that sounds like you may have a slightly bent upper A-arm. If the "silver thing", the ski spindle, is more vertical or straight up and down it will put more pressure on the front of your ski and will cause darting and hunting. It should be at a slight angle when on flat ground:"\" not "I". Get yourself a good piece of oak and bend it back by prying between upper and lower arm. Shimming the rear of the rubber ski bumper will also help eliminate darting as mentioned above.
Another problem I have with my phazer is the waggling rear end when you let off the throttle. I think this is a combination of engine braking and the crappy stock 1 inch track. A more aggressive track like the "freeride 1.5" will fix that. The Combo of Darting and Arse wagging does not inspire confidence, especially when trying to keep up with bigger sleds. I know how frustrating a poorly handling phazer can be. Still trying to make mine perfect, but not there yet.
I hope this helps.

 

[ATV PRO #11]

Been there. Mine was broken front arm. Another time is was when I had fox floats on front and pressure was waaay to low.
Triple check there is no breaks in your front arm. Also check your rear arm (with big wheels) hard to detect that one as it breaks under the big wheel (my experience).
Set ur strap in middle.
Check your toe out on front skis. Tips should be further apart than rear 1/4-1/2".


There is a balance with these sleds. Best thing to do is bring tools and have an adjustment ride day.

 

[ATV PRO #11]

Any chance of getting a pic of the stance of it just sitting.

 

[DGZRT]

I have one Phazer in our group. Some things we did.. Get the front end off the ground and and loosen the front shock springs until you can barely move it up and down. Then tighten the retaining ring one full turn. This sets you "A" arms level, it lowers the center of gravity some. Then make sure your skis are towed out 1/4". next install 1/4" shim to the back of the ski rubber. Also we moved the shims/collars on the ski bolt so the ski's were about 1/2" wider in stance each side. We added dual runner carbides and sucked the limiter strap up on hole. You can adjust the front kicker shock on the rear skid to lighten the steering up some.

Most of all of this is listed on the site someplace just do a goggle search.

 

[Sk1pp3r-808]

Michigan Phazer is this sled the RTX model because If so the front air shocks should be checked to see how much air pressure they currently have. If one side or the other has too much or too little It definitely could make your ride horrible. they should be around 60-70 Lbs per side for you. Test on a sled lift or jack.

 

[michiganphazer]

This is great advice everyone. My time to work on the sled is limited so when we get to it we'll follow all of your advice and post pics you requested. Stay tuned!!

 

[michiganphazer]

Well I replaced this bracket and was surprised how bad it was bent. Bolt was bent too. I need to go back and put the spacers to the outside to make skis wider.

I read that I could shim the rubber spacers. What would I use for the shim?

How do I check shock air pressure?

Someone mentioned dual carbides. Can you point me to some specific ones and I'll get those ordered.

Today I will get into suspension adjustment. Any tips for settings? Strap is in hole 2. I'm 120lb and primarily trail ride. Here are some photos I took...

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[DGZRT]

Wow! was that the Ski Spindle ? That was bent? , So While you have it off the ground loosen those springs on the front shocks until you can slide the spring up and down just a little . Then tighten the locking one or two turns to keep the springs seated. Your limiter strap looks all the way lose. tighten it up one hole. The shims under the ski rubbers goes in the back of the rubber not the front . There is a nice writeup on Hard Core Sledder under the Polaris section. It's a good read and will show you what to do for shims. I make mine out of rubber belting but many use pc's of Hyfax cut at an angle . Most people have some left over from cutting off the ends of there slides. The shim only needs to be about a 1" to 1.5" wide and the full width of the ski rubber.

Woody's Slim Jim Dooley's are a crowd favorite. and might be cheaper Then Snow trackers. I'm running the Semi Aggressive Snow tracker's on my Vector and It's the Best Carbide I have tried so far. They are pricey. If you look on Ebay you might find a deal for Them .

Do a search on Aligning you ski's ... Very important ! most every Carbide except the Snow Trackers require you skis to be toed out . I prefer about a 1/4" toe out on each ski.

It does help to move the shim on the ski bolt to widen the stance.

If the steering become heavier with all of these adjustments tighten the spring collar on the front shock by the limiter strap! one or two turns . It will lighted up the steering!